Defend Girls, Not Pop Punk • Page 2

Well, Mariel did issue a response to his response. Honestly, that's probably all there's ever going to be.

 

Related, I always roll my eyes when men don't believe their fave bands would do something horrible cause just talking to men and women their opinions on an artist can be so vastly different. I've heard women talk about how creepy and disgusting members of certain bands have acted towards them, and then hear men talk about the same artists and go "you'd have to go far and wide to hear a bad word about these guys!" Like naw just actually talk and listen to the women around you and you'll hear plenty. And I know not everyone can hear everything but if ppl would just listen to us and take action instead of broing up with their faves women wouldn't have to fear coming forward so much and it'd be so much easier to put them on blast

Idk sorry for ranting it's been on my mind a lot

 

I would, as always, highly caution against taking "witnesses" at their word. Not only do we know memory is extremely fallible, one only has to look at any of the recent events that have taken place where video evidence exists of abuse and yet, before it was released, so many "witnesses" claimed that's not what happened. And, I would hope this goes without saying: public instances do not usually reflect a relationship and what is going on behind the scenes. I've witnessed first hand the nicest, most charming, people in public ... only to know what they do behind closed doors. But, you don't have to look far to see stories of this specific tour manager throwing, physically throwing, people out of shows and screaming in their face. So, his tales of stoic resilience offer little comfort. I'd love to see his spin on why the last band he worked with fired him. He's a good writer (or someone he knows is) I'll give him that.

 

Ah, I wasn't aware she had responded. Honestly, it's a difficult situation in that both sides seem to have aspects of each other's stories that weren't fully addressed.

Going off of this, I would like to pose a question that I hope isn't misconstrued or painted in a negative light. I am in full agreement that the vast majority of rape/abuse allegations turn out to be true. I am in full support of the idea that we need to support alleged victims whenever possible. However, witnessing one of my best friends be falsely accused of rape has made me somewhat cautious... because as rare as false accusations are, they DO occur, and I've seen their horrifying impact with my own eyes. And siding with the alleged victim 100% of the time, inherently means that we will sometimes be on the wrong side. Obviously the problem of unaddressed rape allegations is far greater than that of false allegations, but both do sadly exist. With that being said, what is the best way to offer support or help potential victims while not possibly ruining the reputations of an accused person who may, in fact, be innocent?

 

All good points. There's a lot of angles to consider.

 

By handling these things privately before it ever gets to the reputation ruining stage. By creating and maintaining a culture that makes it implicitly known that these things aren't acceptable. And by prioritizing public safety over hurt feelings, that way large exposes never need to get written because toxic people are removed from the environment.

Doing this would not only protect people, but would remove any possible motive people might have for lying about assault by removing their platform. Essentially, what I tried to address in this piece. The answer is cultural shift.

 

idk you don't have to come into it and say "He's guilty scum and I hate him!!!" like honestly just coming into posts and talking about rape culture and speaking out against victim-blaming behavior and listening to women speak is showing support for victims. It's still engaging in that conversation without stating anything about the specific accused person's guilt or innocence.

 

I like this answer, thank you. Hadn't thought of it from this perspective.

Also true.

 

For whatever it's worth, Four Year Strong definitely still employs John J. Ryan.

 

She addressed some of this and admitted that she probably didn't handle things with her abuser perfectly but this doesn't negate what he did to her.

 

Well put. Good read.

 

Great piece.

 

More or less what I figured.

 

Great read and great follow-up posts in this thread, Anna. Thank you.

 

Great read and follow up.

As an aside: I think to really stop the call-out culture, labels and managers need to hold artist accountable for sexual assault, molestation, and other malfeasance. I think call-out culture seemed to grow in response to the people who should have been holding artist accountable trying to silence stories of abuse, or acting indifferent to victims and community safety.

I believe an implicate culture of "see something, say something" among artist and other people working with artist would be a great step to make the community better and safer for concert goers, artists, and everyone else better. However without some form of accountability outside of call-out culture, I feel like the issues Foxing had when they tried to deal with a sexual assault incident involving a band member in a private matter will continue to happen.

 

Personally, I think it's MOST important that the industry implements this policy. More so than individuals.

 

Thanks for writing this up.