DC Cinematic Universe Movie • Page 21

Apparently Joss said some things implying his batgirl may be black. Can't wait for the internet fury to roll in.

 

Never change internet

 

A WOC as Barbara Gordon would be a great win for representation, as well as a step in the right direction for Whedon, who doesn't exactly have the best track record with that stuff. The LEGO Batman Movie already set the precedent with its Latina Batgirl.

My biggest concern is still how Whedon, who's had some noteworthy failures with his female characters over the years, is gonna handle that Killing Joke trash that Babs just can't seem to escape. We don't need another woman whose backstory includes sexual assault.

Also, include both Alysia Yeoh and Frankie Charles as supporting characters. A trans woman of Asian descent and a black woman with muscular dystrophy are both important pieces of inclusion; it'd be a terrible waste to sleep on either of those opportunities.

 

Yet that is what the rest of this rant is about and how it's not the version you as a comic book fan wants.

Yeah those scenes are fantastic. I also love the scene of Clark as a kid in the classroom and his mom having to come talk him through it. Also the scene where he's being bullied and Jonathan asks if he's ok and Clark says "You know they can't hurt me." which gets the "That's not what I mean." I honestly love all the Jonathan scenes.

You forgot to mention all the Jor-El moments too. Not only the whole opening act but every time he pops up he steals the show.

Hmmm, I dunno about all that. The film focused pretty well on how Clark was alone his whole life and when he killed Zod, it was him choosing Earth as his home over something he's always wanted, as well as having to kill the last of his kind. Pretty emotional and shocking. Always baffling when people can't see it in that light, but oh well.

I couldn't tell you how happy I was when Clark's baby ship was about to hit the ground, it cut way into his life. We didn't need to see him being found and all that stuff again. It was nice to jump into a time where he's just going around saving people and trying to find out who he is, while getting flashes into his past of major moments. I honestly can't think of anything wrong with that set up, but call it sloppy if you will.

Besides this just being a insult at Snyder, I'm actually not sure what you are saying here. Yes, he is a master at visual style. From all the stuff both of us mentioned above, not sure how it can be said there isn't any character building or conflict. It's funny you mention how he thinks Superman is lame, because he's stated so many times how much he loves all these characters and the world building he did in just those two movies has so many amazing stuff and comic book nods in them. I haven't heard anything other than praise from actors who work with him or other directors talking about him but hey, keep up that hyperbole hate.

I get your point and its a good one, but I honestly do think in the case of Returns it was because it was married too much to the old Superman movies that are boring and don't really hold up with nostalgia.

I mean, all their superhero movies lately have made soooo much money and have a ton of fans. They aren't as beloved as the MCU movies if that's what you are asking, but you know that. If you don't think the MCU movies being kid friendly and comedies as well doesn't help the MCU out more, then you are kidding yourself. I don't know why we always have to compare, because I love them both but DC is doing fine and would love to see how their films would be if they weren't being so reactionary.

If you saw it, you know why that movie failed and it wasn't because of the dark tone. It was a mess. The arguments about BvS being too dark always crack me up too. The Dark Knight was super dark, a movie being dark isn't a problem. It was all the story problems with it. The dark tone wouldn't have mattered if the story was good. You know this.

I do love the Captain America films so much, which is funny because I do dislike him in the comics and do think he's corny and lame. I mean, the last two were done better than Man of Steel, but I think they did the same thing with taking a older character, putting them in today's world and having them struggle with their "fish out of water" situation. CA movies are great action movies that have emotional and comedy beats blended in. MOS just didn't go for that comedic tone.

See Superman Returns

Um, I think other than his costume (which I loved how they explained) I'm not sure he was a full angsty person. Maybe confused and unsure of himself, but that is part of his origin story.

I honestly don't know what to tell you. This was Superman Year 1. He had literally been Superman for a single day. It would have looked so lame in that final fight to have him smiling.... We will get to that point (and should have in BvS,) but for this movie being his Year 1, it was fantastic.

My previous statement works for this too. It's his origin. I would love to see these stories. Now that he's established let them come!

 

Yes.

I've only ever heard praise for his characters in his work like Buffy and Dollhouse. What has he done that's so bad?

 

One of the many...MANY flaws in MoS is how they decided to reboot Superman, a story by the sons of immigrants that is meant to be pro-immigrant, into the poster child for why you should exclude immigrants.

An illegal alien shows up and brings with him nothing but drama / baggage that results in the mass destruction of whole cities. Literally, Superman is the cause of all of the pain that happened. If he doesn't emigrate to earth, Zod never comes to earth looking for him.

It is the classic argument for why you should keep immigrants out. "Trouble follows."

 

Wow that is reaching. Anyone who saw MOS and thought it had an anti immigrant message already had that mindset before the movie.

 

The entire point of Superman is an immigrant story. Literally, that is his entire origin story. It isn't something buried in the text. It is front and center. And the larger point isn't that Snyder and crew made an anti-immigrant film on purpose, it is that they just didn't care. They told a story they thought would be cool and edgy without even considering the implications.

Looking at Superman's story without looking at it through the lens of immigration is to remove one the main, if not THE main, aspects of that character. And viewing MoS through that lens, which you absolutely have to, there is no reaching for the conclusion that this story does a disservice to the pro-immigrant story.

Just step back and look at the story they told. In this version of earth, the one and only alien shows up to our planet, and almost immediately after revealing himself, more aliens arrive and completely decimate major metropolitan areas in search of the first alien who showed up. In what universe does the earth then look at Superman after that and go "I am glad this guy is around, he is a real hero." No. The only logical response is fear, mistrust, and hatred of aliens. That includes Superman. This turns the immigration story that Superman is meant to stand for on its head.

There is no "reach" to get there. You can choose to ignore it, but it is absolutely there.

Superman is meant to be an alien who was raised by earth parents (and in the early days, the emphasis was on American parents) to become the absolute paragon of humanity. He did all of this despite how different he was, how powerful he was, and without completely ignoring or abandoning his culture of origin.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with his origin being influenced by immigration or needed the movie explained to me, I know Clark is the one who brought Zod to Earth. My point was that you guys are taking the movie trying to show the side of "how would people react to an alien with his powers? Some would think he was the 2nd coming, some would fear him, some would love him, some would hate him" and make it out to be some anti immigration message.......

 

Because it is right there, staring you in the face. There is literally no subtext or reading between the lines required. No one is taking the film and making it into anything. We are taking what the story provides. The "elevator pitch" for MoS could very easily be a pitch from an alt-right group trying to make an anti-immigrant sci-fi allegory. If you have decided not to see it that way, there is nothing to be done about that. But it is there, without any contorting of the facts of the story as presented.

 

I'd love to see a Superman film where he's played by an actor of Latinx or MENA descent, but still raised in the sane kinda setting, helmed by someone of the same heritage. Leaning into an immigrant story in the 21st century w/ a white lead isn't ideal, lol.

 

Yikes. I didn't bring my tin foil hat *backs out slowly*

 

Wtf happened this thread?

 

Like Justice League Gods and Monsters? That would be pretty cool. I liked that movie a lot more than it gets credit for.

 

Oscar Isaac would be amazing

 

I haven't watched that yet. I thought he was white, since he's basically Zod in that iteration? If he's a POC, and that's used effectively within the plot, that's a good creative decision.

 

Gods and Monsters was so weird/cool.

Wish the book were a dvd/book combo like they did with some others.

 

Oh man, you should totally watch it. Do you watch a lot of the animated movies? As huge comic fan you should, esp Superman vs the Elite which is my favorite Superman movie. Since we disagree on MOS so much, I'd be interested on what you think of that.

But yeah, Superman is Latino and raised by immigrant farmers in Gods and Monsters.

 

I've mostly given up on the animated movies 'cause most of the recent ones don't really appeal to my tastes.

The main exception is Return of the Caped Crusader, since Batman 66 is awesome; I really want them to make one that crosses over w/ Wonder Woman 77 (voiced by Lynda Carter) inspired by the current miniseries while Adam West is still around. Gods and Monsters is another exception that I'm sure I'll love, and I even own it on DVD, but I just haven't sat down and watched it yet.

I still need to watch Superman vs the Elite, since it's an adaptation of one of my favorite Superman comics. Funny that it's your favorite, since it's a rejection of the grittiness that MoS leaned into and a statement of the character's modern-day relevance as a symbol of hope.

 

Batman 66 animated film was a lot of fun. I love the comic run as well. Linda Carters WW has crossed over in the comics, so I'm sure if the Return of the Caped Crusader movie did well enough, they will capitalize on that too.

MOS is my favorite live action for sure, but Elite is my favorite overall Superman story in movie form. I don't think I've been relating in words correctly in past conversations that I completely separate the comics from the movies. I do not go into either MOS or Elite thinking "This better be my superman from the comics". They are adaptions, they do what's best for the movie and not be a slave to the source material. IMO if I want that story, I'll read the comics, I want a different take. MOS holds up so well as different take on Superman and explores things I thought was cool. It's that simple for me Also as a movie fan, every shot in MOS looks so breathtaking, so that helps push it to the very top for me.

 

'The Flash': Matthew Vaughn, Robert Zemeckis, Sam Raimi on Shortlist to Direct
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I'd be down for any of those guys especially Zemeckis

 

Those are all potentially good choices. Zemeckis seems like the most inspired choice. However, I haven't seen his last 2 films and heard mixed things about them. What's Sam Raimi even been up to since that Wizard of Oz movie?

I still wonder what Rick Famuyiwa's Flash would've been like.

 

Sam Raimi passed on it