Community (NBC/Yahoo) TV Show • Page 40

So they removed Advanced Dungeons and Dragons from Netflix because of the Chang Dark Elf.

 

oh god, I googled it since I forgot that scene, and I found this Vulture article

Is America Ready for Chang the Blackface Elf?

it legit says "They’re all amazing uses of blackface."

 

I'm sure this comes from a place of ignorance, but I'm not sure why Chang in blackface is any worse than Mac in blackface in IASIP.

I always heard from folks in here that Sunny gets a pass because the other characters blatantly make sure to point out that blackface is wrong and Mac is a bad person for doing so. Shirley does the same thing with Chang by calling it a hate crime. So in both instances, the viewer knows that it's wrong.

Would love for someone to provide further explanation if they disagree. Again, I admit I may be ignorant and really just want to learn and grow

 

I don't think I can speak to the answer to that, per say, because I have similar feelings about when it is portrayed in a negative light, showing it is bad. But maybe a POC can speak to it more than me.

What I can say is that the Sunny example has also been brought up, that episode has been removed from services too

 

Yeah, I did ask in the General Politics thread as well to get a feel for things since it's a more active thread, and I think I've gotten some good insights. When considering that both shows are run by white people, they shouldn't really have a say in whether something is racist or not in their TV show. Would love to have more perspectives from POC, but I do think it makes sense, and tbh that was my knee-jerk reaction when Sunny did it, too, until someone had explained to me that it's different due to the show making it clear that it's wrong. It's been a conflicting feeling over the years for sure

 

Honestly I don’t think the community episode is a good example of “showing that it’s wrong”. Shirleys comment was accurate but it was portrayed as a throwaway joke, the way all progressive ideas are
It’s one of the main reasons I dislike the show

 

Yeah that's fair, I was never a fan of how much everyone piled on Britta for her progressive views (though I think the jokes about her being a hypocrite about it at times were valid representations of some more center-leaning Democrats)

 

Totally
But you can tell the creators and writers of the show generally think “the world is too PC” and shit bc their jokes rly reflect that

 

I'm not going to pretend Harmon is always on the right side, bust isn't the joke here clearly that blackface is wrong? Chang is a character who is constantly on the wrong side/out of touch with reality. He shows up painted as a dark elf, is immediately called out for being problematic, then dies. The entirety of the joke is he's an idiot.

 

Yes that’s true about Chang but just like pierces character it’s portrayed kinda as just his quirks that they accept and put up with. Like they still let him play lol. They literally had one person say something, the rest of them go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and carried on like that.
Idk. I guess because like I said I don’t like the way they deal with pierces character in that regard, I kinda have a biased view of that perspective I guess

 

But they constantly call Pierce out on his shit views. They don't kick him out of the group because it's a sitcom with fictional characters and real contracts, but his character is a constant punching bag for his ignorant views, that's basically his only function (so much that even the real shithead Chevy Chase allegedly quit the show over it.)

I don't know, I think there is value in actively mocking ignorant views

 

They mock it but he suffers no real consequences for his views. Like I fundamentally disagree with the mindset. You shouldn’t be friends with racists/sexist/homophobes. P basic stuff to me. But I get that it’s a sitcom but i just don’t like it lol. Doesn’t rly matter if you agree w/me tho

 

To be very clear, I’m not condoning Pierce or Change‘s actions. In real life, of course boot them. But I also think, in an entirely fictional setting, there is value in repeatedly mocking shithead activity.

The show should have written off pierce as “he was a shithead and we were done with his awful views” instead of “he died”.

 

Probably should have mentioned I’m still in my first watch through...

 

Bingo. Granted, the context is always important.

Sometimes it takes watching a character like Pierce who (to a lot of viewers) is clearly in the wrong and his character is rightfully called out for it, for some to reflect on who they themselves are. Those folks might otherwise go through life thinking it’s normal to make fun of people that don’t look like them, but see a perspective that others might be turned off to their views.

 

Believe me I get your point it’s not that I don’t understand what you’re saying I just disagree in this case?

 

shiiiitt. Sorry!

I hate to “agree to disagree”, but I personally think if they wrote pierce out the minute he said something shitty (the first episode?) it wouldn’t work as much as constantly ridiculing his bigotry for 4 or 5 seasons of television.

 

I just think they should have portrayed it more seriously and had him suffer real consequences. I can think of a few times I think but on the whole not really. I know like you said it’s unrealistic to write out a character like that from the beginning, which is why I just..don’t like the show as much for choosing to have his character at all. I understand y’all feel differently.
Like for instance if they needed to keep him there should have been real pushback when he said things instead of just mocking or giving a snappy retort to. I know there was one arc that I can recall where Shirley was fed up and wanted him out of the group but that was very short lived and idk

I know it’s a little older so I probably have just too high of expectations. I’m just saying how I prefer for shows to handle those views, if they must include them at all.

 

I think the issue prompting the recent slew of removals of episodes due to blackface is the idea of white creators/writers using blackface to make a joke, even if the context is that blackface is bad. Runs the risk of trivializing the issue and the argument could be made it’s not theirs to joke about to begin with.

Still think pulling the episodes entirely is extreme. Could give them the Dumbo-on-Disney-Plus treatment with a disclaimer before the episode.

 

I was talking about this the other day, a lot of the NBC block this show was apart of (Office, 30 Rock, Parks&Rec) relied very heavily on racial humor framed as the bigot being the joke. But for a show trying to be "post-racism" the writers are writing a fuck ton of racist humor under the guise of knowing it's wrong.

 

I mean you don’t need to spoiler it now, that’s already been done lmao

 

Realizing that others might have different perspectives, it’s hard for me to imagine anyone watching the D&D episode and genuinely thinking it supports or encourages any kind of racism. I would argue that the joke is that things that are even close to blackface should be avoided.

Chang, being an idiot and not realizing how people might interpret it, dresses up like an elf (notably not trying to impersonate a black person) but Shirley notes how it could be construed as a hate crime, and bigoted Pierce actually assumes it *is* blackface. To be honest, I find the joke to be thoughtful and clever, and the characters also react in ways consistent with their personalities, but again that’s just my perspective.

 

My issue with a lot of the pulling of episodes that were either of the times or deal with things either insensitively or clumsily is that it’s coming from a fear of backlash and it’s not actually reckoning with the issues at hand. Brushing stuff under the rug or hiding it rings hollow to me because it’s so clear that the motivation is out of self-preservation. The HBO Gone With the Wind Route is the better way to handle it, by providing context, disclaimers, or discussion rather than hiding stuff away hoping no one gets mad at you.

 

Yeah I’m going to be honest idk the “right” way to deal with it but I was definitely not into when I read that I think it was the office was totally re-editing an episode to take something out

I feel like that’s the true definition of sweeping something under the rug and pretending it didn’t happen
I would prefer they just take out the ep altogether but yeah I think another maybe better option is to have the disclaimer

I know there isn’t, like, a CEO of Black people lmao but you wish we could just ask THEM what they want bc frankly a bunch of white people deciding is stupid.
Obv POC aren’t monoliths tho so even that is hard

 

There's been a huge backlash towards all the streaming services that have pulled episodes from shows, I could see them bringing them back with disclaimers within the next few weeks