Comic Books Comic Book • Page 223

Yeah I don't mean that events need tie ins to be read, most don't, but I prefer when events don't feel the need to have a lot of tie ins. Like I feel like a lot of Marvel events force books to have tie in issues that at times disrupt what's going on already in those books. I find that a lot of books that tie into events don't even fully explain what's happening because they expect you to know from the event. That said I have read some good ones too that could be read as their own thing.

I think the worst offenders for me are some X-Men events where if you're not reading all of the X-Men books you actually miss sections of the story. This isn't too bad if you're reading them at a later date because they're usually collected together but I imagine that being very annoying if you're just reading one of them. Plus it makes the whole event feel very inconsistent with so many different artists and writers.

 

the internet certainly is a big help these days. and if i'm honest with myself, i would really hate the relaunches. if it's supposed to be #905, then have it be 905! but obviously i understand that at the end of the day comics are a business and every business wants to make more money and have more of an audience.

for me, when i was looking at comics, this was like, 97-99 so there was no internet help and no one i knew read / collected comics so all i could do was walk into the intimidating store where everyone acted like the comic book guy from The Simpsons. i'd bet good money that comic stores still around are very, very different now with the popularity of all the movies and such, but back in the day for a 9-12 year old it was brutal to wrap my head around. was very much a secret club haha.

 

The X-Men definitely have a really rough history of crossovers, lol, as did 90s Spider-Man. The whole line of X-books have many a time been treated like one big single ongoing series, which is super frustrating and exhausting. Something like Civil War II, where you can read Ms Marvel or Scarlet Witch or Spider-Woman without the main event and just organically feel the event's impact, is way better than X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, New Mutants, and more all being forced to tell one story that requires all the titles to make sense.

 

The secret club vibe still exists at times, especially with women who often get accused of being fake fans. A lot of people thankfully fight against that and try to welcome in new readers, but elitist old school fans might never fully go away, unfortunately.

 

I haven't read Doom Patrol before but Gerard's run has been really fun. Confused most of the time but that seems to be par for the course so it doesn't really bother me. The last issue helped really put everything together.

 

I'm just glad Gerard Way is still making art I love in 2017.

 

Boooooo.

I actually like the idea of "volumes" and sane numbering personally. Much easier for me to organize in folders.

 

Yeah I quite like them starting fresh whenever titles move to another creative team. They're effectively new books most of the time even though they're still in the same continuity.

 

I see the pros and cons of both. Unfortunately, Marvel had some missteps in that process (like launching all new #1s after Secret Wars instead of letting the titles picking up where they left off with the same writer continue the name numbering) that made this simplification process more complicated instead, but when done well, I do prefer the idea of a new volume for each new writer's new creative vision. Though, part of me also doesn't really care, lol.

I think my ideal situation would be at least 2, no more than maybe 5, different long-running titles sticking with legacy numbering, and then everything else getting a new number one every time the creative team and direction shifted (and only then).

So, specifically for DC, I love Action Comics and Detective Comics having legacy numbering, but then I would've kept Harley Quinn's numbering in Rebirth since it was the same writing duo, and I also would be giving Wonder Woman a new #1 this summer when Greg Rucka leaves. Then, at Marvel, I think Amazing Spider-Man should go back to legacy numbering. Maybe eventually relaunch Uncanny X-Men with legacy numbering, too (maybe turn X-Men: Gold into that and X-Men: Blue into something else), and maybe Avengers could get that treatment, too. But, everything else would continue to regularly relaunch with creative shifts. Both companies would then find a way to better number their trades, too.

 

Sounds way to complicated IMO.

I think you can keep it simple and keep stories and arcs together. We do this with seasons of TV, we know it works. Volume X: Issue Y. Run your story, when you're done, Volume X+1. Simple. Then if you wanna read all of an arc, you just go find the volume and the issues within it. Just like a season of TV. If you wanna have consistent numbering as well for everything in one "group", then make it small on the back and keep a running tally.

It should not be hard to walk into a comic shop or go online and be like "I wanna read Spider-Man, where do I start..." and have it be such a cluster fuck. Haha.

 

I think I might have to agree with the TV numbering system here. I wonder if the only reason they don't is because the trades are technically volumes, too.

 

Maybe. But then I'd collect the issues into TPB and use the same numbers: Volume 3: Issues 12-25 or whatever, and then you know what it's collecting without having to look inside and go online and read Comicvine until your eyes pop out.

 

Yeah. I noticed that sometimes issue numbers will at least be on the back, but it is annoying when you have to open one up and search for it. But there's definitely a way more efficient option here that's for sure haha.

 

When I wanted the Hawkeye set for Christmas I had to send links to the exact things to buy to my mom and girlfriend, cause trying to figure out what to buy and what has what and why is there a volume three, but this version there's only two and it says it has everything in it and what about this version and ... gaahhhhhhhhh ... Amazon is basically impossible to use for that. Haha.

 

I'm not sure that numbering based on story arc is that different or that much better than numbering based on a writer's run, especially since different arcs within a single writer's run often tie into each other. Plus, some series have standalone issues that wouldn't lend themselves to the story-arc-per-volume structure. For ongoing series' runs, people are more likely to recommend a writer's run (Fraction's Hawkeye or Snyder's Batman) than a specific story ("LA Woman" or "Endgame") anyways.

One could argue that renumbering at all is too confusing anyways, and that sticking with legacy numbering works best, lol. Like, even Action and Detective, which both launched in the late 30s, are only now in the next couple years gonna break 3 digits. After all, #900 really isn't that much more complex than Vol. 7: #11 or whatever.

 

My issue with collected editions is them claiming to be a definitive edition and including all but ONE one-shot or something like that

 

Keeps the volumes relatively smaller, like a TV series. So you're not looking at 50 books, but something more manageable and concise. Of course more arcs can tie into each other, it's just a way to chunk the data so it's easier to catalog, read, organize, and keep together. Want to start reading Spider-Man? "Check out Volume 4, it's got this great Venom arc" ... and then you can go read it and immediately know you can go to V 3 if you wanna go back in time, V 5 if you wanna see what happens next. Simple and concise.

Another ongoing problem with comics, the random standalone that you gotta go find and forgot about. But you could easily attach these as bonuses or compile yearly and keep within the timeframe. Volume 2; Bonus 1

That's only because that's the best way to do that right now, but if you could just say "go read Volume 7" and it contains that entire story from Fraction, then it's super easy to find and buy and read.

It sure is if you wanna get into reading comics and don't know where to start reading. A fan having to go find out they need to start on issue #723 and just keep reading onward is a pain in the ass. Buying a volume of an entire story, and saying, just start at one and read onward is way less complex.

 

I think it's worth noting that my personal preference is writer-based, but I've seen a lot of comic book creators and shop owners say that relaunches just make things more complicated and frustrate the average reader. And we've seen Marvel sales experience diminishing returns from each relaunch.

Obviously readers are not a monolith, and shops are not a monolith, and things need to improve one way or another. But, I think it's a complex issue with a lot of factors and a lot of industry nuance that needs sorted out.

 

My also problem is having multiple Volume 1's that contain multiple #1-6s. Like what huh?

 

Totally applied to a job at DC last night, haha.

 

Enough shop owners dislike renumbering that I don't know if that's really much easier for database purposes. "Volumes" meaning both collections and runs doesn't exactly help, either, lol.

Comics didn't really renumber much at all in the pre-Internet days, but that wasn't really an issue until things got crazy in the 90s. Like, I was reading a complete reading order of Spider-Man's whole history as the titular character of American comics, and it's crazy how it went from a fairly simple process of following different eras within ASM's continuing numbering, into a crazy barrage of minis, relaunches, crossovers, etc. You'd be able to say, "Check out ASM #139-150," and be fine. And, issues were filled with recaps and easy to follow footnotes saying, "see: #121." Kids could pick up any issue off the shelf and be fine, and could also go on a pretty linear hunt backwards if they so desired.

At this point, there's really not a perfect solution to what already exists. Either you have to say, "check out 2015's #1," or you have to say, "check out #601." Having a good website and app (from Marvel and DC themselves) to organize these histories should be a top priority, as should better policies for collected volumes. But, for specifically issue numbering, any solution will have pros and cons, and fans and haters. lol.

 

For what?

 

An editor position. Tired of editing at a marketing company and really want into publishing/comics/fiction/etc.

I'll never hear back, but had to give it a try anyway after stumbling upon the opening.

 

Well, to be honest, they're a dying breed anyway and shouldn't be the reason for making any decisions. What should matter is what's easier for the reader, specifically if they want new readers.

Well, that's just a terminology fix, I just tossed the word out there. Call one "collections" and one "volumes" — I'm sure there's a half-dozen words that can be used.

When there are fewer things to keep track of, it's not as much of a problem. But we have the technology and have proof of how this works best -- at least way better -- already.

Gotta say, as a kid of the '90's, I hated this then too. I much rather would have wanted to tell my parents I want a volume of comics for Christmas so I could read an entire story. If I wanted a season of TV on DVD, it was super simple. I didn't want/could never go to the comic store every month, let alone week, anyway ... best case scenario was four times a year before I could ride my bike, and even then it was a pain in the ass. I would have killed for an easy way to tell my parents how to get me comic books back then or a better way for them to have been organized.

 

That's awesome either way!