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Classic Crime – “Holy Water”

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Melody Bot

    Your friendly little forum bot. Staff Member

  2. Huh. Dropping the "Christian" tag, I guess? I heard evolution, a cuss word, and something about humans being inherently good. I'll be interested in seeing the general reaction to this.
  3. hermanthehermit

    Paris, Texas Climate Accord Supporter

    Matt's with Bad Christian now, so still presumably religious just a little less hesitant to use language. I dig the song regardless.
    coleslawed and Chase Tremaine like this.
  4. Oh for sure, the song is really good. It's just far left field of Christian orthodoxy, which always causes a riot
    hermanthehermit likes this.
  5. NitrateDawn


    This song literally sounds like it was written as an attempt to say "look, we're EDGY Christians".
    Chase Tremaine likes this.
  6. Matt504

    Trusted Prestigious

    I feel like this song is better than anything off the last album...
  7. SorryinAdvance


    I'm under the impression that Matt has been reading some new material and has had a shift in his theology. I certainly don't think that this song is an attempt to break away from Christian lyricism. In fact, I think the themes are pretty tied in with his faith. The use of God damned is actually proper and in context refers to the original meaning of "damned." "There is no God damned thing in sight; it's all deemed good in His eyes," is the line. I think he's simply stepping into a different theological territory in which all truth is viewed as God's truth (including evolution, the age of the universe, etc.)

    The chorus, as well as the rest of the song, also touches on the idea that all things are spiritual/holy. There is not "special" water set apart and made holy; it was already holy. As one writer, Rob Bell, puts it (paraphrased), "The bush was already burning. Someone just had to notice it." Perhaps a more appropriate quote from the same author is "The whole thing is a temple." "The whole thing" being the entire world and any space we can occupy in it. Finally - and I'll have to wait to actually read the lyrics to be certain - there seems to be a rejection of the type of theology that is very exclusive in nature. Nate Henry, Matt's partner on their podcast, also has a song called The Unknown on his band Sherwood's most recent album that I'd argue very likely draws upon some similar sources of inspiration.

    Also, really great song.
    lish, Heart, dlemert and 5 others like this.
  8. bmir14

    Trusted Supporter

    this ain't great but man it's good to hear his voice again
  9. Yes, there are Christian themes here for sure, but the overall idea of the song falls into universalism/pantheism. Quoting Rob Bell only supports that point, since most Christians ostracized Bell for being a universalist when he published Love Wins, and then his follow-up What We Talk About When We Talk About God, had some major pantheistic vibes to it.
  10. Colin Your Enthusiasm

    It's nobody's battle but your own. Prestigious

    Decent but certainly not blown away. Might be better in the context of the album. But this is the opener right? Def think this will be a softer release. Hope i'm wrong.
  11. Damien Davies

    Idk Maybe Supporter

    Are they just "Classic Crime" now, dropping the "The" ?
  12. AshlandATeam Mar 16, 2017
    (Last edited: Mar 16, 2017)


    I'm not going to start a holy war here, but I will say this:

    I think that when you say that TCC (or Bell) are 'left of Christian orthodoxy,' you're severely misunderstanding church history. What Bell and McDonald have embraced is a pre-Reformation view of Christianity, which would include the Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican traditions. Their viewpoints are actually significantly MORE substantiated by the church fathers of the 2nd-5th centuries as being the ancient, historical faith. And, of course, the Reformers who 500 years ago said 'the church is totally screwed up and we need to fix it' wouldn't actually argue that point; they simply rejected the church fathers and replaced the underlying assumptions of the church fathers and councils with the underlying assumptions of the medieval church (for better or worse).

    What you mean to say is that Bell/McDonald are left of American Evangelicalism/Protestant Reformed Theology. Because they are. But Reformed Evangelicalism is not Christian orthodoxy. Christian orthodoxy is much bigger and expansive than the Reformation or Evangelical church - the most respected scholars of the Christian faith today (like, say, Pope Francis or NT Wright or any number of others) would fall much more closely in line with Bell/McDonald than the Reformed theology of the American church.

    Which isn't to say I expect you to agree with them (a cursory glance at your profile tells me you won't, which is a-ok by me. The church is filled with all kinds). But the difference and distinction between 'Christian orthodoxy' and 'Reformed Evangelicalism' is an important one to make, and will change the way people understand this song (and band).
  13. Lucas27


    I'll just give my two cents in a bunch of short sentences:

    I'm reformed. I disagree with some of the lyrical content. I think I'd still appreciate the lyrics if they didn't sound so pointed and edgy. I think the lyrics might not be as "progressive" as they're intended to sound. I think the use of "God damned" is actually proper, even though it still screams edgy. I think musically this is the best thing I've heard them do since The Silver Cord (which is one of my favorite records). I think I'm still super excited for this record and it might be one of my favorites of the year.

    Also, I think a lot.
    Chase Tremaine and AshlandATeam like this.
  14. sammyboy516

    Trusted Prestigious

    Definitely this
    AshlandATeam likes this.
  16. NitrateDawn


    I mean that's basically what Bad Christian in general feels like to me so I guess it makes sense. (I say that without ever having listened to their podcasts or anything so I could very probably be wrong about that, just the sense I get.)