Chavista Club World • Page 26

Honestly, this seems to be pretty well in keeping with the theme of how men that engage a little too much with the "men are trash" mantra are compensating for something. I find that if a cis dude's response to hearing "men are trash" is anything less or more than "lol, you right", they're automatically suspect. That's just my two cents, though.

 

Could you give an example of the more? I can only think of people becoming defensive over it

 

Damn I'm not gonna lie a, I really looked up to Dom. The Internet is a weird place that allows people to engage in weird ways. From my understand, Dom was engaged for a very long time, but i also remember him talking about it, here, as being in an open relationship. i can't recall any of his thoughts on non-monogamy, but I guess I just assumed he practiced that, as it is something practiced by people who want to stray away from heteronormative ideology.

I never knew who he was, and I def think he did something he is ashamed of, and I want to believe he would be taking time offline to unpack that shit, but I don't know. I also know he has struggled with drug (alcohol?) abuse, depression, and suicidal thoughts, which makes me worried about his well being, along with the well being of those two people which he hurt.

 

I can't think of anything from anyone socially prominent but I have known of more than one manipulative, shitty cis dude who proudly paraded around saying things like "men are fucking MONSTERS we should just KILL ALL MEN we DESERVE to DIE" and other dramatized thespian bullshit to make themselves look better. All the while being just as misogynistic as any other average cis dude.

 

Also, yeah, I also looked up to the guy in a way. I lurk this thread pretty hard because I just assume everyone in here is way smarter and more educated than me and he was one of the main people whose insight I always looked forward to. This revelation really does taint a lot of his input in my eyes.

 

I looked up to him as well, and could even credit him, among other ap.net users, for helping me get interested in social justice in general. Needless to say that I felt betrayed and I just couldn't bring myself to feel bad for him, especially after all this time. You'd think someone as socially aware would have known better than to pull off shit like this. You never truly know someone I guess.

 

Five Principles of a Socialist Climate Politics

 

i won't deny that i saw what happened with dom as the hurtful loss of trust in a friend in addition to what sounds like very reprehensible behavior towards women. but, i think it's a good reminder that in organizing on the left, there will always be abusers, manipulators, folks who aren't what they claim to be, etc. it's just going to happen, so don't don't don't pedestal people. they will let you down.

 

This is well worth a listen

 

Is this a safe place to complain that the wokerati have so quickly sent "gaslighting" to meaningless buzzword hell

 

I mean that's what gaslighting is, denying someone's own experience in an attempt to discredit them and make them second guess reality

 

Gaslighting is not at all equivalent to disagreeing with someone over whether X happened or giving the person they're talking about the benefit of the doubt. It may not be *good* to do that, but it isn't gaslighting. Even at the lowest level of severity, gaslighting is, as you said, intentional psychological manipulation meant to make the victim question their own perception or sanity. Usually with the intention of either avoiding some sort of punishment or making the other person dependent upon you in some way.

And tone policing is an ad hominem used to distract / derail from what someone said to *how* they said it. There typically isn't a disagreement over how someone said something, it's a (disingenuous) disagreement over whether that matters. E.g., I call Trump a giant piece of shit, and the Trump supporter I'm talking to tries to chastise me for using swears and never gets around to addressing whether Trump is, in fact, a giant piece of shit

 

Yeah I'll have to agree with @incognitojones. I mean, just look over here, the Pinegrove thread was an unfortunate example of how both gaslighting and tone policing can be used as a weapon against someone. Similar cases happen on the frontpage when it comes to threads about social issues. Not okay with seeing these words described as "meaningless buzzwords" just because Trump supporters might have appropriated these terms.

 

Could you link to these examples?

And I don’t know anything about Trump supporters using the term. I’m also not saying that gaslighting and tone-policing aren’t real, just that they aren’t synonymous, and to say that tone-policing is a form of gaslighting is to make the term “gaslighting” so generalized that it would apply to almost literally any time some dispute or disagreement occurs, which would subsequently trivialize and downplay the significance of *actual* gaslighting. Hence: “meaningless buzzword hell”

Agree with the bolded.

Something like the “please don’t yell at me” could, I think, *turn* into gaslighting, but only if there’s a subsequent argument over whether that person was actually yelling or not. The actions and feelings of the other person are an inherently necessary part of gaslighting. A simple statement being an example of it — even something like “That didn’t happen,” which is the basis of any gaslighting — doesn’t really work, because it’s all so dependent on the context of how and why it was said.

 

I feel like the general politics thread has become decidedly less Marxist over the past couple of weeks.

 

We've lost a couple users over the past two years so I'm not surprised.

 

Name a better politician

 

weird flex to reproduce my message to the chat verbatim but ok

 

absolutely no idea what you're talking about

 

My posting has dropped off heavily since I've become a full time workaholic and these boards just move too fast to be practical for me to check beyond a few threads (politics thread is just way too much, I'm more here these days). I still think about getting back at my manager by shitposting while I poop

 

you're a fake leftist stealing my labour (posts)

 

intellectual property is not leftist actually. your labour belongs to the collective now

 

posts are not intellectual property, they are material fruits of labour, like a chair

 

Can anyone recommend me some good books about the Soviet Union?