Discussion in 'Music Forum' started by fredwordsmith, Oct 31, 2020.
Oli Sykes is an abusive piece of shit:
Bring Me The... head of the person that did this. / Music News // Drowned In Sound
Bring Me The Horizon's Oli Sykes 'slapped and spat' estranged wife
I can’t say anything that hasn’t already been said but yeah... this is a fantastic EP/LP with the perfect mix of old and new for all their fans to enjoy.
Went on a run with this. Run approved.
Except I do end up finding myself wanting to start the EP over again once I get a little bit through the last song. Like I got hit with all this intensity and then it mellows out, I need my fix. Still a good song though!
Their best release since Sempiternal.
Dear Diary is so fun & Teardrops is the best Linkin Park track since the early 00s.
So is the plan to have a few of these?
Yep. All called Post Human. I think it’s a trilogy and we can expect them over the next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep them spread out till next September which’s when they have their huge arena tour over here.
So I see people are just flat-out ignoring these again then, cool.
Definitely the most consistent release they've had since Sempiternal for me, and I enjoy That's The Spirit and Amo quite a bit. This feels like the perfect meeting point of all the different sides of their sound.
Good point - but to me if I'm on a run or a ride, it's the perfect "cool down" track after all the intensity preceding it.
Has Oli made any statements regarding them?
Didn't see him address either. The glass bottle/piss incident was thrown out of court and allegedly that relationship was turbulent on both sides but that doesn't excuse what he did.
Oli was a drugged-out mental health case who has (seemingly) managed to get his life together in a peaceful way. He appears to be clean. He has remarried. He is producing art in a healthier way, and doing so in a way that creates success and meaning for his friends and people who support him, like the people who enjoy their new album being discussed here.
Does it excuse what he may or may not have done, if the news posted above is true? Surely no. But if we say anyone is beyond redemption for a mistake, there is no one to pass judgement. He was supposed to appear in court for it, though I can’t locate any records on judgment or fines. If he cheated on his wife with a stripper or 20, the list is long for that offense, especially in rock and roll. None of us are hiring him as a babysitter.
News like the 2007 incident has never appeared for the band again. This scene has had plenty of opportunity for repeated offenses, even for bands that are thought to be good people (the Killers allegations this summer, for instance).
All this to say that I don’t think we can lump Oli in with the true creeps (Jesse Lacey) or abusers (Ian Watkins) of the scene. He was a person on drugs who potentially made a bad choice more than a dozen years ago, and he’s a person with a failed marriage. If we are gonna toss those people aside, society will be empty.
I’m not here to dunk on either of you for your thoughts. You are entitled to those opinions the same way that fans of the band (not just Oli) are entitled to theirs. Nothing more or less.
THIS. This is a great example of someone using reason and logic to explain a complicated situation.
I am admittedly really really late to the BMTH wagon, I had never listened to them prior to Amo, so it's fascinating to read all of the love/hate from fans of their older stuff. But again, from my perspective, I recently started following him on IG and he truly does seem to "have his life together" as you mentioned, so it was a shock to me to even read about the abuse allegations.
I know in this society (and especially internet culture) where there's only "REALLY GOOD" and "REALLY BAD/AWFUL" people, it's hard to grasp the concept of someone turning a corner, learning from past mistakes, and bettering themselves. To your point, if we wrote everyone off or tossed them aside after one mistake, society would be empty.
Yeah I get it, I'm not comfortable seeing support for him around here and have said as such but that's just my take.
BACK to this EP....
And actually to those who only like the old stuff/There is a Hell and prior to that.... what is it specifically about the newer stuff that you dislike? Is it just "too accessible"?
To me it sounds like a band in an absolute songwriting groove, that also has the ability to meld genres into their own unique sound. I read something about Oli wanting BMTH to be like a "gateway" band for young fans - totally admirable and needed for rock music to keep moving forward. I think that this Post Human era of theirs is some of the most exciting (yet also accessible) sounding rock music in years. We can all love bands like Code Orange, etc but let's be honest, they are never going to get radio play. This is a band that can make rock music relevant again - and the Linkin Park comparisons are spot on.
Really good post. I couldn’t have worded it any better myself.
The problem with all of this is that you are centering the abuser in all of this and not the survivors.
Addiction is not an excuse. This happened a long time ago is not an excuse. Other bands have done similar or worse is not an excuse. All of those are distractions at best and help perpetuate the elevation of powerful (white) men at the expense, and harm, of those less privileged.
Listen to what you want, I don't really care, my point in posting that was to ensure it's high up in the thread so anyone unfamiliar with the band or Oli's abuse can be aware and make an informed decision whether to support them or not.
Just please be mindful of who you are supporting and the message that sends, most importantly to the survivors and survivors of similar abuse from others.
I gotta go back and listen to Amo all the way through. This project has the potential to be their best yet, though. Great 1st part.
This is all mostly fair to say. I thank you for sharing it.
In writing the above, you assume in my own life I have not known abuse or that I do not sympathize with the abused - or that I see abuse through the same lens as you. In fact, it is with that lens that I wrote this - as a man abused and bullied/hazed as a boy, as a husband married to a woman from a physically abusive past.
No one is immune to abuse, but all of us are worthy of another chance if we are honest and make amends in action and deed, no? Otherwise it’s all eternal judgement for a (possibly) singular poor response.
I will grant you that drugs, rock and roll and time passing are not excuses. But they are reality. That’s the reason this is not a singular tale, limited to one time from one band. To not acknowledge the circumstances in which either incident took place is to disregard a circumstance as essential as person and place to why they may have happened.
The discussion is about the “abuser” and not the abused because, as you noted above, whatever occurred appeared to be two-sided. If it was mutual, are not both abused in this scenario? Further, the band is the topic here, not Oli. He is one of five. He got out of a relationship with turbulence, rather than continue abusing or being abused. That’s not someone who wants to continue a destructive pattern for harm of a person - it’s someone who is trying to end one, be it one-sided or mutual. That’s worthy of celebration, rather than condemnation, right? If you can’t root for people to make better choices and only condemn them for wrong ones, redemption does not exist.
My final thought on the matter is that I *don’t want* you to think YOU have no reason to dislike the guy. You can. None of us are arguing against that - and I hope you don’t even read this post in this way.
Nobody is stopping you. Nobody is asking for your post to be taken down. It is part of his story to someone in this community. That’s reason enough to leave it up and have a dialogue.
I accept that’s how you feel about him, and people like him. In the same way, you should accept that not everyone sees the world in the same fashion, even with the same experience.
I thank you for sharing your point of view.
Using addiction to excuse abuse is gross af yikes
Thank you for this. I think nuance tends to often get lost in these types of conversations, and I’m glad you were able to express this so eloquently, as I share many of your viewpoints on it.
I agree with you in that I’m certainly not saying anyone is wrong for choosing to not support Oli or the band due to past allegations... that’s your choice and totally fair. By that same token though, in a situation like this that imo is pretty complicated and messy from many years ago, I choose to believe that people do have the ability to change and that Oli has done so, and that we can hopefully respect each others’ viewpoints.
Would love to see a single source for the contention that he has “changed”. Just simply moving on with your life is not “changing”. Changing requires WORK. Forgiveness is not a right, it is EARNED. Has he actually made amends to the people he’s harmed? Has anyone harmed by him ever at least been apologized to? And accepted that apology? You can’t just move on with your life like nothing happened and call that “making amends” or “changing for the better”. So he’s no longer abusing people in 2020, that’s great, it doesn’t change what he did in the past and pretending like it didn’t happen doesn’t earn him forgiveness, regardless of how much better his own life is these days.
We shouldn’t “celebrate” former abusers just because they are no longer actively abusing people. What the hell is that.
1. Dear Diary
3a. Ludens (would be higher if I hadn’t overspun in quarantine)
4. Parasite Eve / 1x1
Both of the last tracks are good to great! Just hard to compete.
Also, again, it is horrifically gross to use addiction to excuse abuse. That is so ridiculously disrespectful to the extensive amount of people struggling with addiction who AREN’T also abusers separate and apart from their addiction.