Brand New Band • Page 860

I want to speak my mind on how it effected me, but the truth is I cannot properly convey my feelings at the time it happened, and still feel about it. I haven’t gone back to them since the news broke. I’ve retyped my thoughts several times and erased it. I guess I’m not able to write it properly yet.

I will say I LOVE the positivity over the last few pages. This is the chorus I love and cherish, and it’s nice to see toxicity rejected.

 

just want to double down on this!!

I also double down on all of this. It's like you took my post and expanded on it perfectly.

If anything, I can just tell you that I identify with this post, so so so so much.

I identify with this extremely as well. Even though I did post I feel like I kept it vague and was making more of a blanket statement. I haven't spoken too much about my feelings of anything, other than once getting involved in a discussion about having a tattoo.


At this moment in time, this is all I want to say about anything involving them:
2 weeks ago, I went to my first class on at my new college, a state university after attending community college for 2 years. I walk up to my first class....women and social justice. There is a girl standing outside it (wearing, I realized after, a fall out boy shirt). Literally within 15 seconds of me walking up she said "is that a brand new tattoo?"
I can't really describe the emotions that surged in that moment. All the excitement and confidence of being in a new school just deflated right out of me.
I am lucky in that my tattoo doesn't often get recognized. People often have to ask me what it is/what it means, and I answer differently every time depending on my mood.
In that moment all I could do was say yes and was just like, trying with all of my effort to not just sob. My first interaction at my new school, with someone from my women and social justice class , and it was about this???
The next question out of her mouth, of course, was "how do you feel about that now after everything?"
Between that and timehop posts showing up about what was happening this time last year and I've been hurting a lot lately.

 

Damn that's seriously insensitive. Hope they pay attention in class.

 

First off, I want to echo the sentiments about the last few pages and the posts that have been made. I don’t know that what I have to say will be as well written or said as what has already been posted, but I’ve been thinking about writing something up for a while now about my feelings regarding this band and the music, now a year on. So please bear with me, I apologize if this just seems like I’m rambling or its too long.


I wouldn’t be who I am or where I am without this band. I can trace who I am as a person, the passion I have for music, the bond I have with my wife, many of my friendships, my taste in music etc to the moment my older brother came in my room and asked me to go for a drive with him and listen to a new band he found. Driving around our small town, Your Favorite Weapon instantly became my favorite album and Brand New was my favorite band.


From then on I was the “Brand New kid”. Kids that didn’t really know me in jr high and high school at least knew that I was the kid that was super into that band. Me and my wife became friends when we were 17, and a big part of that was our mutual love for The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me.


What most these people that knew me as the “Brand New kid” didn’t know is that this band literally saved my life. As a teenager I was plagued with relentless self loathing, an astronomically low self esteem and had pretty much convinced myself that I was a plague on my family and that they would all be far better off without me around anymore. At the time I didn’t just think they would be better off, I thought I “knew” they would be. One night sitting in my bedroom after a fight with my parents, I was at the lowest. I didn’t want to live anymore. I wanted to give my family the release of not having to deal with me anymore. I decided to listen to some music to try and drown out the demons in my head, and I put on The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me. The lyrics hit me in a way the never had before. It was like it was written for me. This wasn’t my first time listening to this album, I loved it before then. But this was the first time the lyrics really struck me. By the end of the album, I had decided I would not kill myself. Suicide wasn’t an option for me from that point on.


I have many other memories tied to them. Two years before me and my wife got married, we were engaged and we broke up 9 days before the wedding. We didn’t talk for a long time, but reconnected at a Brand New concert. Seeing each other there lead to us reopening communication and helped pave the road to getting back together. The night Science Fiction came out, we laid in bed with headphones on in the dark and experienced the album we had been waiting 8 years for. It was a moment I thought I’d tell my kids about one day when showing them that album.


When the Jesse stuff happened something changed for all of us, this site in general was different. Suddenly I was fighting with people that weeks before I had been bonding with over this band. Like others, the words Brand New became triggering for me, but for another reason. When those words showed up on here, it was guaranteed that there would be a fight. It was guaranteed that people would be called cowards and un-empathetic. It was suddenly impossible to discuss feelings that were far more complicated than “screw Brand New and death to Jesse Lacey” I wish I could write it all off as simply as that. But I can’t. So much of who I am is because of this band. And so much of what I believe about humanity won’t allow me to.


I believe and support victims. I despise what Jesse did. I don’t blame anyone who can’t listen to the music he created anymore. I don’t blame anybody that is uncomfortable seeing them mentioned. I don’t blame anybody for hating him. I don’t blame anyone that hates Brand New for not saying something to stop fans from reddit from abusing and harassing the victims.


Its so weird to have someone you idolized not be the person you thought they were. What Jesse did was horrific. The way he abused his power was abhorrent. I don’t condone it, I don’t excuse it. But its complicated for me because I believe that humans are ever changing beings. I think that once good people can do terrible things, and I believe once terrible people can become good people. None of that means I think they should be a band again. I think they should stay finished and stay away from having a platform. If they decided to be a band again, I don't know what I would do or how I would handle it. But I sincerely hope Jesse isn’t that person anymore. Not for me, not even for him or the band but for his daughter. I hope his daughter can grow up with a good man for a father, and not the man that abused his power and took advantage of underage girls who looked up and worshiped him. I hope that away from the spotlight he can find a way to make amends to those he abused and hurt. I just have to believe people can change.


I hope the victims can find peace and strength. As much as this has hurt those of us who loved this band, their pain was and is so much worse. I hope they can sleep better knowing that the truth came out. I hope it empowers others to come forward and that real change can come to our scene of music from this. I think continuing to talk about this band, their legacy and what happened is important. I think making the name Brand New taboo makes it too easy to bury what happened. I think talking with each other about Brand New and how it changed our scene is important. Talking about it and not making it disappear means we can continue to let other musicians know that they will be held accountable, that we won’t just ignore and forget what happened.


I hope that one day I can listen to The Devil and God again. I hope I can show it to my kids one day, and that when doing so I can talk about abuse and what is and isn’t appropriate and can use this situation to make my kids better, more respectful human beings. I hope that we can continue to be respectful to each other on here. We were all hurt by what happened last year, we are all on the same team here. We all connect with music differently than most people and it made the sting of this situation all the more painful. I get the anger, I get the hurt and the pain. I get being uncomfortable at the mention of their name. I hope that real change can come to the music scene. I love this community, its made me a better person, I’ve met some awesome friends here and I never would have found it without this band. So much of me is tied to them that I will always love their music. I don’t really know how to end this rant. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. Being able to talk openly and freely about them like this is cathartic, and I think it has made the community better. Thanks.

 

i wish i could afford to get my tattoo covered more than anything

 

I think a lot of what this music catered for whether intentional or not was for people who felt troubled or little to nowhere safe to go, you felt heard. Maybe that was real and maybe it was all bullshit but regardless, much of rock music as a whole markets itself to be the place for outcasts, and this was a particular niche in that discussing mental illness in particular in a way that reached people in way others may not have. There’s discussions to be had on how maybe some of the praise came from the power of being cis white men who made an aura of mystery around them. It felt to me like in the wizard of oz when they find out the wizard is just the man behind the curtain.

I had a lot of people, generally older people in music, basically tell me I shouldn’t have “fallen for it” in the first place and I should have seen the obvious. These are not people you know, famous men aren’t the best to trust, and so on. But I think that they must have been in the same situation before, and maybe they say that out of bitterness for a world that never changes. There’s a lot to access about this in particular due to the tight knit cult following of the band, and I think the only way to really make the change is to look at it all and how to keep the positives we felt at certain places or times and figure out how to push back against anything cultivating such a dangerous situation or person again. This is a lot of words I’m trying to type at midnight.

 

I know you started your post by saying you don’t know if your post will be well written but I think you nailed it....I share so many of the feelings you described and so glad you were able to verbalize time so eloquently

 

i actually applauded alone in my office while reading this post. thank you!


a few recurring thoughts i've had this past year:

people love to talk about separating art from the artist, but I've found it better to figure out the divide between your own emotions/interpretations and the art. it's been helpful for me to keep paying attention to those feelings, but find new outlets for them that aren't associated with truly shitty people. easier said than done though.

finding out that a band whose music you used to cope w/your own abuse was involved with perpetuating a similar kind of abuse is a tough fucking pill to swallow. some really gross irony there. to everyone who's experiencing something similar here.....

 

finally managed to log back in after a while. hi everyone.

i appreciate @nohandstoholdonto @supernovagirl @Anthony_ and @Jason Tate posts to different extents and i appreciate yall

i think the key is not turning this into a chat thread or making this thread so stand-offish but understanding that a lot of people are hurt after what happened with this band and deserve some compassion. im not going to regurgitate all of whats been said above but i think some understanding and compassion from both viewpoints would go a long way.

 

First off, really great discussion in here over the weekend. Probably the best I've seen on this site.

Secondly, I really identify with this post (and many others - but this one pretty much captures exactly how I've felt for the past 10 months). I love all kinds of music and consider a lot of bands and artists as favorites but none compared to how I felt about Brand New and when the news came crashing down, it felt like I lost hope not just in that band, but all things that I love. How could something I felt so dearly about turn into such a shipwreck at the drop of a hat? I now take caution in almost everything I enjoy knowing that any day awful news can break about whatever that is. Not just with music, but with TV, movies and sports too. Now, I'm almost studying people's backgrounds and wondering if I can really get behind a band or an actor or an athlete or if I have to potentially prepare for them being an absolute piece of garbage. And honestly, this year, I've been siding with the latter most of the time.

I've never been one to put artists, actors or athletes on pedestals but there was just something about BN that put them above everyone else and now I feel like I just can't ever view another band/artist/person as I did them so it's definitely taken the joy out of a lot of things.

Everyone is - or has been - dealing with this situation differently and I think we all need to respect that. There's probably not a right way or a wrong way to deal with it, either. So no one should feel bad or guilty or disgusting for how they're dealing with it. There are certain things that may not irk one person, but irks the shit out of someone else. I think we all need to do a better job of respecting each other's feelings, thoughts and opinions. I mentioned before a few months ago in a thread (maybe this one, I don't know) that since this news broke, the entire tone of this site sort of changed into super confrontational and sour - not just in this thread but a lot of threads. People have been quick to jump on others and we lost a lot of good users over the past 6-7 months because they no longer feel comfortable here, which is really a shame.

 

This bit is super important for the forum I feel. I definitely came close to leaving, as have a few others, and we seem to have permanently lost many. It's a shame but if we work together we can make this place a more harmonious place to be again.

 

I completely agree. I noticed it when there were conversations of Laura Jane Grace too. Some people were legitimately asking questions because they wanted to understand, not because they came from a place of hate at all, and they were being attacked and called cis white males with no clue. It turned what could have been a positive and learning experience into one where those people either became afraid of asking and learning, or upset at those who shamed them, which is really the opposite of what we're looking for. We should celebrate every sex, race, and sexual orientation. While I realize that I personally have had it lucky because I have to deal with less assholes in the world, I feel the solution should be working to educate those that don't understand others' struggle. Equality will never be gained through anger and hatred.

Overall I feel that this is a great community that is doing their best to grow and educate themselves. There has been a lot of things brought to light over the last year, and while some may still feel able to listen to music that meant a lot to them, or watch some of their favorite movies, it doesn't mean that they haven't learned or grown up a bit too.

 

This sums up my feelings on it so thank you. I've been super uncomfortable on this site since and still continue to be, specifically in the music forum, and have only been able to find myself some comfort in the football thread (hi Sam + others, thanks!) and some Funko/Fortnite threads - talking about things that I have an interest in without that hesitation that there might be some confrontation.

 

Cannot agree more with these two sentiments. I’ve seen a lot of good users leave, some permanently. I’ve seen a lot of innocent, good hearted people attacked. I’ve seen plenty of friendly threads go off like an atom bomb. I’ve experienced it and almost left too.

I will say in the past few months the tone of chorus has slightly shifted back towards being the positive place it was when I first joined back in 2016. It seems a lot of people are working towards that, and it’s clear it’s been a priority for @Jason Tate too. The last few pages of this thread give me hope that we can reach that harmonious music loving place again too.

 

While I agree with most of what has been said, I disagree with educating others being anyone's jobs. The news about Laura Jane Grace are good examples. I don't know if you're referring to her coming out, but what I remember the most about it was the bigoted comments on ap.net's main page. Those who left them didn't want to learn anything, and were just there to spout their hatred towards Laura's journey.

I usually don't mind educating people about concepts that they don't understand, as long as they're friendly and non-judgemental themselves. When it comes to more intimate subjects like sexuality, gender, or mental health however, I get quickly emotional because of my related struggles. It also takes time and energy, and some us don't have patience if the person we're interacting with isn't willing to listen, and stays on the defensive instead.

 

Yeah I don't think it's anyones responsibility to teach others, everyone can take the time to read even briefly about important issues like these.

 

i had never blocked any one from the like 10+ years i was on AP to now, and have found i have blocked more people who just always seem to just constantly jump on every one all the time. Makes threads way nicer.

 

•••Warning. Long post. Sorry. I always have too many words.•••

It's definitely not anyone's responsibility to teach others.

...but the time and energy people take to help people understand makes significant progress in this realm. There are people who genuinely don't understand certain things - be they obvious or subtle - who would understand were they given a human connection and informational/educational interactions. It's like volunteering at a charity or for political causes. It's not anyone's responsibility but it definitely can be a catalyst for progress and positive change.

I just had a super small but perfect example of this come up the other day:

My wife and I have generally similar opinions and views on many things. We both get down with Alkaline Trio. We both dig craft beer. We both prefer cats. We both see the need for gender equality and recognize the gender disparity (though she's LIVED it - which I recognize is wholly different). We both see non-binary and trans people as no different than cisgendered people. We both recognize our white privilege but consciously work to become more aware and to be good allies to those who don't have the same privileges we have.

But we disagree on Cardi B. I think there's a lot of problematic shit in her lyrics and behavior. My wife doesn't hear it the same way I do and is just vibing with the feel of it all.

We were talking about it and it came down to this: my wife hasn't had a lot of music make her feel represented in the way Cardi B makes her feel represented. Cardi's lyrics and delivery make her feel strong, like she can be a "boss bitch" (Cardi's words), like she doesn't have to take shit from the outside world, and she can be in control of the things that happen to her. It's the first time she's really gotten that from music. She had always had that stuff from reading feminist authors or people around her helping her feel empowered. Never from music.

I, on the other hand, have always had that feminist encouragement spoken to me in music. Between Anti-Flag, Sleater-Kinney, RVIVR, Conor Oberst, David Bazan, Melissa Etheridge, Tori Amos, and plenty others, I've never had the experience of not having music represent my feminist-friendly ideas and tendencies.

Had my wife not taken the time to explain and teach me about how she feels about that Cardi, it's a thing I'd have never understood even though I really wanted to. I'd have never understood that little bit better why representation matters and how much of an effect that under-representation has.

The conversation shortly afterwards switched to how, similarly, non-cis-het romantic relationships are under-reprepresented in culture but, because she grew up pretty close with a lgbtq-friendly family, she hadn't noticed the void as much as I had.

It's not anyone's responsibility to teach others. But it does make faster progress for these sorts of ideas in our communities if you can find the time and energy to do the volunteer work.

 

being considerate of people's feelings means doing so for the people you consider to be attacking people with questions. you couldn't even begin to imagine being trans/non binary and being asked the same exact questions every single day, a lot of times in extremely bad faith. so yeah, people get frustrated and lash out. you cant put the emotional labor it takes to educate ignorant people on the oppressed.

"equality will never be gained through anger and hatred" is an extremely privileged stance to take as well. just think about it. im all for anger and hatred toward racist, homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, transphobic people who aim to destroy these communities and their way of life. in fact id say its a good thing. equality will never be gained if you give in to these people. they want you to normalize their views by validating them. you cant debate a nazi.

im all for being understanding of people with complicated feelings on the brand new thing, i myself have complicated feelings about it all that i want to work through. but idk, this post seems wholly unrelated and unnecessary.

 

While you definitely came at this from a standpoint that seems much more aware than mine, I just wanted to say that my intention in stating this was that I saw a breakdown in the community during those posts. My statement about equality was probably misinformed, but I just meant that within Chorus, we're generally not dealing with those that are outwardly racist, homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, or transphobic. Those that are here seem to be generally good people that may not know or understand everything, but most seem willing to learn and respect each other. I don't see the open hate that I see in other communities on the internet. I realize there are evils in the world that I will never know personally that others deal with on a day-to-day basis and despite my best intentions, I still have much to learn and understand.

It was probably unnecessary to bring up, especially in this thread, but it was the only other time that I noticed an extreme coldness to others in the community that I felt could have been handled better, on all sides, but only because I would rather see this site as an inclusive community rather than a bunch of usernames in a forum.

 

I would completely disagreed. Those people are on chorus/Ap. Both in completely transparent and subtle ways. Ive seen the open hate. Ive been the victim of them multiple times through my 9 year posting history. Several others have as well. Just because you haven’t seen them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

 

Like a week ago someone was harassing me on twitter for being “triggered” by brand new. That could only be somebody on this website.

 

Brand New Devil & God Masks & Tshirt

Brand New Mewithoutyou Greater Pyrenees: Live In Canada Tour Poster

 

you are barking up the wrong tree my friend

 

yeah, you'd be better off posting that on the band's subreddit or something

no one here wants that shit