Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1617

Discussion in 'Music Forum' started by Dirty Sanchez, Aug 15, 2017.

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  1. Jason Tate Nov 12, 2017
    (Last edited: Nov 13, 2017)
    Jason Tate @jason_tate @encorepodcast Staff Member

    Writing helps me think, this is me just writing and thinking aloud. Trying to make sense of where I'm at.

    Like many of you this whole situation has been weighing on my mind the past few days. Last night was a rough one as I kept waking and working over this cluster-fuck in my mind. Those conversations with myself started with some variation of, "ok, how do I feel about this statement?" and "what does forgiveness for this look like?" and I realized I was looking at this completely wrong. I was looking for a way to forgive myself because I liked this band so much. I was looking to rationalize and compartmentalize so that I could continue on less affected. Less hurt. I was trying to make it about me, and employing every mental trick I knew to minimize the truth. As I sat here scrolling through my inbox, and now multiple accusations of improper conduct with a minor, and multiple emotionally abusive accounts, I felt sick to my stomach. No mental gymnastics I do could make those womens' lives better. Letting myself off the hook feels like a cop out, and it feels, to me, like I'd be enabling a culture I vehemently disagree with. One I know I've been a part of for a long time and one I know is wrong and harmful. I haven't been a perfect person, and for years I think that's what drew me to this band. That "I'm a little fucked up too" vibe gave me something to crawl into and see I wasn't the only one feeling that way. I've spent years trying to better myself and part of that is in coming to terms with reality as it is, not as I want to see it.

    I'd never tell anyone what they need to do, but I know what I want to do. I don't want this my life, I don't want this in my music scene, and I don't want to contribute to the normalization of acts like this. If we just go on, everything that happened fades to the back of everyone's memory. There's no accountability, and those that were hurt, some apparently as young as 14, can't gleefully forget as they craft their end of the year lists or discuss the latest album ranking. I believe, for myself and myself alone, that I want to say this is not welcome in our music scene and that it won't be tolerated or accepted. I can't just put on a Brand New album and divorce what I am hearing come out of the speaker from what I know of the person singing. I can't see his face on my wall and not, at my core, be shaken. Something has changed and there needs to be a record of that. Bands being formed today need to see that there are repercussions for abuses of power and that we aren't going to sweep it under the rug any longer.

    For the past 18 years we've revered this band. We've held them up as something special. Unique. Legends. Untouchable. And that status led to immeasurable pain for many people. People that would see a record release not as an amazing event, but one of unknowable anguish. That needs to be part of the band's legacy now too, because it's just as real. It happened. We need to remember it happened. So many of us have fantastic memories with this band and their music. We can keep those. Those happened just the same. Lives have been saved listening to songs from this band, moments forever captured to their soundtrack. Hold on to those, they're yours. But I can't keep walking forward like it's all the same.

    I grew up listening to Elvis Presley and various artists that I now know had inappropriate conduct with young women. I remember finding that out for the first time, years later, and being shocked. So young and so fucking naive about the world. I would listen to those classics and in the back of my mind rationalize it as being "so long ago," and just of "another time." I don't want time to dull how I am feeling right now, I want to be able to return to these words and remember. Because we need to remember. This is not ok. This is not normal. And I don't want to pretend it is. I don't want to look at my end of the year list and see the band in there just like any other year. Because it's not like any other year. Actions matter. Forgiveness, it may come, maybe, but that's not something I know for sure and it's not something that is soon. And my forgiveness will always be a distant second to the ones that actually matter. People were hurt and that's a reality that will forever haunt this band's legacy in my mind. It needs to hang there; a remembrance.

    We're all a little broken in our own unique ways, but music has always been what's tied us together. That's why we're here together on this website. That's bigger than one song, one album, or one band. Those moments will continue to exist. I don't begrudge anyone that can immediately listen to this band's music again, give them money, see them live, and move on immediately, but I know that's not me. Any chance at rehabilitation is not immediate. So, that's where I'm at right now. I'll be posting very little news about the band in the foreseeable future unless it's extremely newsworthy and relevant. I'm out on the music for quite a while. I'm holding on to my memories, the undeniable moments I've had with these records, but anything going forward will carry with it the weight of what we learned this weekend. The memory will be there, but for me, the songs won't ever sound the same.
  2. carrytheweird

    I appreciate the honesty you have about this, with us and with yourself.
  3. Kevin360

    Someday I’ll find me Prestigious

    I feel quite similarly, Jason.
  4. Benjamin Lee


    One thing I'm seeing that's kind of fucked up, is people talking about this like it even elevates the band further. I've seen multiple reddit and Facebook comments basically saying "we always knew the devil was raging inside him, but we never knew it was this dark". But it's never in a condemning way. More like "damn, our dark music just got darker. Jesse's a badass". I don't mind if others feel okay continuing to enjoy the band. I don't think anyone is morally required to disown them. But the people brushing this off like it actually is a complete non-issue, or even further, somehow twisting this to be like "Jesse's even cooler now", are kind of grossing me out.
  5. LessThanTrevor Nov 12, 2017
    (Last edited: Nov 12, 2017)

    Vocals & Guitar for Less Than A Sea Prestigious

    A friend of mine and I have been talking about this and she said "if he was really sorry for everything he'd donate to sexual assault survivor non profits and apologize to the victims. Actions speak louder than words." She is a die hard feminist and that was something she could see as a move in the right direction.
    storm, alkalinexandy, Saephon and 6 others like this.
  6. SamLevi11

    Trusted Prestigious

    100% the above. The band should donate every proceed from their current run of shows to a charity, and also maybe make a more survivor focused statement explaining how what he did it toxic and how people can get help.
  7. SamLevi11

    Trusted Prestigious

    God I keep thinking I'm going to wake up and this is all a horrible dream. Then I just got into bed and wanted too cry.

    I idolised this man, despite he had made some mistakes in the past. I knew he wasn't perfect but I didn't think he would have done something this horrible. I'm sad for the victims but in a selfish way I feel really sad that a man I put on such a pedestal has done this in his past.

    I still love this band's music but it is definitely tainted by these revelations.
  8. the rural juror

    carried in the arms of cheerleaders

  9. TedSchmosby


    While reading this, I asked myself if this was the same girl who commented on the statement detailing how Jesse would give her gifts and affection. I remembered that that girl was 14, so it couldn't be the same girl, and when that hit me, I had to take a break. "I was merely another one," is right. Beautifully written. I can hardly even fathom how he could do this to so many girls for so many years.
    beachdude42, fenway89, Mary V and 4 others like this.
  10. Bad Frequencies

    I’m Falling Apart, Inside Your Holographic Heart Supporter

    This was touching, and hit every spot where I, and probably a lot of others, are feeling. Thank you for saying this.
  11. Bad Frequencies

    I’m Falling Apart, Inside Your Holographic Heart Supporter

    Dirty Sanchez and fenway89 like this.
  12. teebs41

    Prestigious Supporter

    I’d say give it another week to see what happens and give people a chance to voice their opinion and then shut this thread down and try to get this community to move forward without this band.

    If I ever listen to this band again it won’t be publically, it will be in private and on I won’t be posting about them..
  13. carrytheweird

    I don’t have the ability to necessarily move on forever without them, having engrained a quote into my skin of his that has motivated me and given me a sense of strength in darker times of my life. I can however, and have already begun to let go of my affinity and care for anything currently to do with them. I hope to see them say their peace with their fans, and announce the end soon without a goodbye tour if Jesse cannot acknowledge the true crime of his nature.
  14. ImAMetaphor

    so much I think Prestigious

    Thank you for everything you do, @Jason Tate. I have a lot of respect and admiration for you and what you do on this website. Thank you for working to foster a safe, inclusive, and respectable community. You are appreciated.
  15. ImAMetaphor

    so much I think Prestigious

    This is really cool! I'd love to see what a non-demo version looks like. Thank you for sharing.

    It's going to be a bit before mine is ready. I only have one verse written so far. But when it's done, I'll share.
  16. Jamie Dagg

    Master of not knowing what the hell I'm doing. Supporter

    I think I might need to brain vomit a lot of stuff about this too. Probably won't be quite as articulate as Jason's, but it was gonna go on a tumblr blog with zero followers and effectively into the void if not here so I might as well put it somewhere that I can actually share it with people.

    It's probably a little overblown to say this, but it really feels like this band has defined me as a person since I got into them at 15. Any difficult personal struggles I've had since then have had this band as the soundtrack in the background of them. It goes hand in hand with the depressive episodes I've had, the moments of wanting it all to end, and has been as part of the sadness as the sadness itself. It's probably not any different from countless other experiences people that listen to this band have had, because I guess that's a large part of why they resonated with people. So knowing that that is something I can't bring myself to listen to any more is as scary as it is upsetting.

    But this incident has done too much to taint this band for a number of reasons. I can't help but feel that because I started listening at 15 and I'm 22 now that I can put myself in the victim's shoes- not to victimise myself in any way because it's absolutely not about that, but knowing that someone could've used those feelings that the band defines so well- that sadness, that feeling of being 'fucked up' and exploiting that is just despicable. Taking someone at a point that is likely a low in their life, taking something that they find solace in when they feel like they don't have much else... honestly it's lucky that it didn't cause even more damage than it had- maybe it did, we'll likely never know.

    But I feel like I can't wholly go into how despicable it is because it's somewhere I've been too. Not in any way illegal, but hell I've been awful to girls before. People I've convinced I've wanted more from and then I've gone and used them for sex and dropped them. People I've been manipulative to. People I've gotten angry with when I haven't got my own way. If anything this statement has just brought the underlying guilt I've always felt to the surface. Seeing someone who was your hero go down because they've crossed the line makes you see the comparisons in yourself, and realise how sickening it is being out in the open. I'm so much more ashamed of it because I can see that behaviour in myself. The age of the person, as much as it's the legal issue, really can't be the focal point in my mind, because we can't as a society live where abuse can be tolerated just because it's legal. I have tried and tried to be a better person as I've gotten older. I think this is the wake up call I need to really look at my actions in the cold light of day and do what I can to rectify them.

    We all need to learn from the mistakes of the people we look up to rather than just distance ourselves from their situations. It needs to be something we all do to change. I'm going to try contacting people I've wronged to do something other than ignore it. Something positive has to come out of this. As far as this band goes, I'm not going to support them any longer. I'm calling for a refund on the limited vinyl even if they don't cancel it themselves. I'm not going to the show next Saturday even if it's on. As hard as it is, I won't even listen to their music again. I can totally understand people that want to carry on with this, but I'm done. I don't want to make this about me in any way, because it isn't. But it needs to be something where we can prove that we're better than our idols, and that needs to start here.
  17. brendanmachow

    not a doctor

    I think Geoff might have been alluding to the rumor (99.9% confirmed) of why the European tour was cancelled many years ago.
  18. tucah

    yep! yep! yep! Prestigious

    This is a wonderful statement about a situation we would have recently thought unfathomable, one that I found myself nodding along with the entire time, realizing this is precisely how I feel about the matter. Thanks for putting this out there and just for the effort and work you put into the site in general.
    Saephon, dadbolt, beachdude42 and 4 others like this.
  19. Cameron

    FKA nowFace Prestigious

    This sums up my feelings exactly. I love this site, and I’m glad you founded it.
  20. Cameron

    FKA nowFace Prestigious

    I’m gonna pop out of the thread I think. Love you all.
  21. CoffeeEyes17

    Reclusive-Aggressive Supporter

    Yeah that Geoff Rickly podcast made me think Geoff knew something else aside from the aforementioned cancelled tours regarding a former member. I also got the impression Geoff didn’t like Jesse but thought he was a great musician so it was moot. Idk I don’t want to like drag Geoff into it but I’m guessing he was just speaking in general that if something else were to come out it would really mess the band up and now here we are.
  22. teebs41

    Prestigious Supporter

    I appreciate some of the people who don’t like brand new on this site not rubbing this in our faces.
  23. mena

    This whole box is Pepe Silvia! Prestigious

    The first time I saw Brand New live was when I was 14/15 years old. I remember being so damn excited for it. I was looking forward to it for months. And I'm thinking back about who I was at that age, how clueless I was about relationships because I had never even held a boy's hand, and the general naivety I had about the world. And it makes my skin crawl thinking about the girls he took advantage of that were just as innocent, naive, and confused as my own self at that age.
    dylan, beachdude42, sean_rugy and 9 others like this.
  24. manoverboard365


    Maybe this site has been tame with that, but on Facebook I've seen some real shitty responses. I have one "friend" who hates Brand New and when the news came out he posted a link to the story with the caption "Hahahaha this is great I've always hated this band." And I'm like seriously dude? Just because you didn't like their music you're happy that young girls were sexually preyed upon?

    This past month has made me realize that like 90% of people are just complete pieces of shit.
  25. Kingjohn_654

    KJ Fishlove Prestigious

    Thanks for sharing your experience. I was about the same age when I first saw them.
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