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Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1617

Discussion in 'Music Forum' started by Dirty Sanchez, Aug 15, 2017.

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  1. BernYourEnthusiasm

    Newbie

    Serious question here. Why not just sleep with consenting women over 18? If your band is playing 1000 caps you can easily find women in any US city your age that want to hookup with band guys. It doesn't seem like being charming or handsome is even a requirement.

    I am just really baffled by the issues with 26 year old guys in signed bands getting into trouble with adolescent girls or non-consensual encounters. Is it just too easy to focus on women old enough to provide consent?

    There is no way Jesse couldn't find adults to sleep with. Same goes for guys like Pete Wentz and Craig Owens who have been accused of fucking with 16 year olds.
     
  2. carrytheweird

    www.nrdc.org

    littlejohn likes this.
  3. duritzfan13

    all we have is time

    littlejohn likes this.
  4. manoverboard365

    Trusted

    The younger they are, the easier they are to groom, easier they are to manipulate.
     
  5. Ben Lee

    I drink coffee and dad my kids Supporter

    I mean yeah, that’d be great and baffles me as well. I dont have an answer to that. But I feel like if the pressure stays on them, we can hopefully avoid this pattern with future generations of aspiring musicians.
     
  6. Nathan

    Always do the right thing. Prestigious

    This is why he needs to recognize it as more than sex addiction. It’s abuse. Manipulating multiple teenage girls and holding them emotionally hostage for years? Into 2010? This is so fucking abhorrent. I know there’s debate about what right we have to dissect or judge the statement, but how many likes does the statement have? How many fans are reading it and forgiving him because he’s omits the full extent of what he’s done, guiding the way plenty of people will discuss this going forward? If you’re really going to hold yourself accountable, you have to do it, not lie and omit to present a version of events that’s palatable and paves the way for redemption.
     
  7. Paul Beaumont

    www.facebook.com/woodandnailsuk Prestigious

    I actually relate to essentially every issue he has had as a human and his vices from that statement but the issue is that it’s always been with women of the same age as me, talking to very young women, 9 years younger than him, makes my skin crawl.
     
    Saephon likes this.
  8. duritzfan13

    all we have is time

    I could be wrong, but I don't know that it's so much about *i'm attracted to young girls* as it is a mismanagement of power. They could've looked older for all we know, but because of where they are in their emotional growth they're so much easier to manipulate. The younger ones are also the ones who tend to have "huge crushes" and gush over their favorite singers. He probably loved the attention and took complete advantage of that. A narcissist and sex addict who realizes he could get someone's attention 24/7 and manipulate them into doing exactly what he wants? Literally probably seemed like the best thing in the world for him. So fucked up.
     
    Saephon, beachdude42, Mary V and 3 others like this.
  9. Dog with a Blog

    mangeur de cul Prestigious

  10. nickdr921

    Newbie

    Maybe this is why Adam Lazzara always said Jesse was a dick.
     
  11. Drewski

    Maybe so, maybe not.

    My feelings are hard to articulate and I honestly don't know what to do or who to talk to. I think I just need distractions...a long run after the 1 PM games, dinner with my mom and girlfriend later, and a healthy dose of Valium tonight. Just chiming in that I appreciate the level-headedness and civility of the people here.
     
    beachdude42, Mary V, katie and 3 others like this.
  12. carrytheweird

    www.nrdc.org

    City And Colour has been all I've played since finding out. Kind of the last artist from my youth/that music scene I still hold in such high regard it seems, and I'm clinging to his discography right now. Covers a lot of self reflection, despair, healing, feelings. Always found his music to be calming and relatable to me. Also feels like a goodbye to a relationship, as corny as it sounds.
     
  13. Kiana

    You look like bad news, I gotta have you Prestigious

    It is about power. young girls are often naive because they're young and lack life experience and truly don't understand the implications. They are excited and passionate and insecure and will often do anything to feel validated, espesh by someone they admire, and possibly by someone they perceive to be of a higher status than them, to feel honored. As I get older I become increasingly more aware of men's bullshit and the red flags, but as a young girl you just want to live out the love story that you've been told you need to aspire to, but you're being groomed and don't know it. He could have easily sought out an adult, but he didn't and with multiple allegations now I can only assume that was intentional on his part.
     
  14. carrytheweird

    www.nrdc.org

    It's so heartbreaking and upsetting seeing more victims coming forward with stories of long term situations he had with them. Truly hope they feel comfortable enough now with this out in the open to continue on happily. This is a painful process, but a necessary one that I believe the current world will see through until every stone is turned.
     
  15. Jason Tate Nov 12, 2017
    (Last edited: Nov 13, 2017)
    Jason Tate

    New merch: chorus.fm/shop Staff Member

    Writing helps me think, this is me just writing and thinking aloud. Trying to make sense of where I'm at.

    Like many of you this whole situation has been weighing on my mind the past few days. Last night was a rough one as I kept waking and working over this cluster-fuck in my mind. Those conversations with myself started with some variation of, "ok, how do I feel about this statement?" and "what does forgiveness for this look like?" and I realized I was looking at this completely wrong. I was looking for a way to forgive myself because I liked this band so much. I was looking to rationalize and compartmentalize so that I could continue on less affected. Less hurt. I was trying to make it about me, and employing every mental trick I knew to minimize the truth. As I sat here scrolling through my inbox, and now multiple accusations of improper conduct with a minor, and multiple emotionally abusive accounts, I felt sick to my stomach. No mental gymnastics I do could make those womens' lives better. Letting myself off the hook feels like a cop out, and it feels, to me, like I'd be enabling a culture I vehemently disagree with. One I know I've been a part of for a long time and one I know is wrong and harmful. I haven't been a perfect person, and for years I think that's what drew me to this band. That "I'm a little fucked up too" vibe gave me something to crawl into and see I wasn't the only one feeling that way. I've spent years trying to better myself and part of that is in coming to terms with reality as it is, not as I want to see it.

    I'd never tell anyone what they need to do, but I know what I want to do. I don't want this my life, I don't want this in my music scene, and I don't want to contribute to the normalization of acts like this. If we just go on, everything that happened fades to the back of everyone's memory. There's no accountability, and those that were hurt, some apparently as young as 14, can't gleefully forget as they craft their end of the year lists or discuss the latest album ranking. I believe, for myself and myself alone, that I want to say this is not welcome in our music scene and that it won't be tolerated or accepted. I can't just put on a Brand New album and divorce what I am hearing come out of the speaker from what I know of the person singing. I can't see his face on my wall and not, at my core, be shaken. Something has changed and there needs to be a record of that. Bands being formed today need to see that there are repercussions for abuses of power and that we aren't going to sweep it under the rug any longer.

    For the past 18 years we've revered this band. We've held them up as something special. Unique. Legends. Untouchable. And that status led to immeasurable pain for many people. People that would see a record release not as an amazing event, but one of unknowable anguish. That needs to be part of the band's legacy now too, because it's just as real. It happened. We need to remember it happened. So many of us have fantastic memories with this band and their music. We can keep those. Those happened just the same. Lives have been saved listening to songs from this band, moments forever captured to their soundtrack. Hold on to those, they're yours. But I can't keep walking forward like it's all the same.

    I grew up listening to Elvis Presley and various artists that I now know had inappropriate conduct with young women. I remember finding that out for the first time, years later, and being shocked. So young and so fucking naive about the world. I would listen to those classics and in the back of my mind rationalize it as being "so long ago," and just of "another time." I don't want time to dull how I am feeling right now, I want to be able to return to these words and remember. Because we need to remember. This is not ok. This is not normal. And I don't want to pretend it is. I don't want to look at my end of the year list and see the band in there just like any other year. Because it's not like any other year. Actions matter. Forgiveness, it may come, maybe, but that's not something I know for sure and it's not something that is soon. And my forgiveness will always be a distant second to the ones that actually matter. People were hurt and that's a reality that will forever haunt this band's legacy in my mind. It needs to hang there; a remembrance.

    We're all a little broken in our own unique ways, but music has always been what's tied us together. That's why we're here together on this website. That's bigger than one song, one album, or one band. Those moments will continue to exist. I don't begrudge anyone that can immediately listen to this band's music again, give them money, see them live, and move on immediately, but I know that's not me. Any chance at rehabilitation is not immediate. So, that's where I'm at right now. I'll be posting very little news about the band in the foreseeable future unless it's extremely newsworthy and relevant. I'm out on the music for quite a while. I'm holding on to my memories, the undeniable moments I've had with these records, but anything going forward will carry with it the weight of what we learned this weekend. The memory will be there, but for me, the songs won't ever sound the same.
     
  16. carrytheweird

    www.nrdc.org

    I appreciate the honesty you have about this, with us and with yourself.
     
  17. Kevin360

    Someday I’ll find me Prestigious

    I feel quite similarly, Jason.
     
  18. Benjamin Lee

    Trusted

    One thing I'm seeing that's kind of fucked up, is people talking about this like it even elevates the band further. I've seen multiple reddit and Facebook comments basically saying "we always knew the devil was raging inside him, but we never knew it was this dark". But it's never in a condemning way. More like "damn, our dark music just got darker. Jesse's a badass". I don't mind if others feel okay continuing to enjoy the band. I don't think anyone is morally required to disown them. But the people brushing this off like it actually is a complete non-issue, or even further, somehow twisting this to be like "Jesse's even cooler now", are kind of grossing me out.
     
  19. LessThanTrevor Nov 12, 2017
    (Last edited: Nov 12, 2017)
    LessThanTrevor

    Vocals & Guitar for Less Than A Sea Prestigious

    A friend of mine and I have been talking about this and she said "if he was really sorry for everything he'd donate to sexual assault survivor non profits and apologize to the victims. Actions speak louder than words." She is a die hard feminist and that was something she could see as a move in the right direction.
     
    storm, alkalinexandy, Saephon and 6 others like this.
  20. SamLevi11

    Trusted Prestigious

    100% the above. The band should donate every proceed from their current run of shows to a charity, and also maybe make a more survivor focused statement explaining how what he did it toxic and how people can get help.
     
  21. SamLevi11

    Trusted Prestigious

    God I keep thinking I'm going to wake up and this is all a horrible dream. Then I just got into bed and wanted too cry.

    I idolised this man, despite he had made some mistakes in the past. I knew he wasn't perfect but I didn't think he would have done something this horrible. I'm sad for the victims but in a selfish way I feel really sad that a man I put on such a pedestal has done this in his past.

    I still love this band's music but it is definitely tainted by these revelations.
     
  22. the rural juror

    carried in the arms of cheerleaders

  23. TedSchmosby

    Trusted

    While reading this, I asked myself if this was the same girl who commented on the statement detailing how Jesse would give her gifts and affection. I remembered that that girl was 14, so it couldn't be the same girl, and when that hit me, I had to take a break. "I was merely another one," is right. Beautifully written. I can hardly even fathom how he could do this to so many girls for so many years.
     
    beachdude42, fenway89, Mary V and 4 others like this.
  24. BTDandFeelingThis

    Now I Know This World Isn’t Spinning Just For Me Supporter

    This was touching, and hit every spot where I, and probably a lot of others, are feeling. Thank you for saying this.
     
  25. BTDandFeelingThis

    Now I Know This World Isn’t Spinning Just For Me Supporter

    Dirty Sanchez and fenway89 like this.
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