Black Panther (Ryan Coogler, Feb 16 2018) Movie • Page 30

This was a pretty long movie that I believe had to be edited down a lot?

So perhaps there are some scenes that expand upon Killmonger's ideology or a real clash and breaking point. I dunno.

 

Do you think Killmonger would be interested in any of the above besides reparations for black people? He didn’t show any sign of it. It wouldn’t be under Wakandan rule because Killmonger didn’t value any Wakandan values. It would be under Killmonger rule with Wakandan weapons.

 

I would have liked to see more interactions between T’Challa and Killmonger besides the scene when Killmonger appears before the throne. A lot of what made Killmonger a great villain was his aggression, though. I don’t know if the audiences would have enjoyed him as much if he ever negotiated a balance with T’Challa.

 

I honestly don't know. But that was one of the things that irked me really, that I didn't know. @angel paste's post above basically describes how I feel.

 

Anyway, I often dream of going to the country of my parents and becoming a dictator. I'd be a great dictator.

 

I realize that making an anti-capitalist MCU movie would probably be impossible, but I also couldn't help feel like Coogler was saying that T'Challa is in a similar position to him, are they saying the goal is to have enough money to fund philanthropic endeavors in poorer areas and teach them STEM

 

I'd like to see this ideological struggle develop in the next movie. Hopefully T'Challa finds out that his neo-liberal way doesn't work out as he planned, as it shouldn't. If anything he should be haunted by the Death of Killmonger.

 

I was totally prepared for this movie to be the jolt of electricity this franchise needs, but the movie was just...fine.

Is it an important movie for this day and age? Absolutely yes. But the action is boring and downright incoherent at times and this has probably some of the worst CGI of the Marvel-verse yet. The majority of the final act was like watching a video game.

The characters and actors playing them carry this movie, for sure.

 

Yes, to me it felt like there was a really good movie here but there were so many compromises being made that a lot of it got lost. I know their intentions were good but it really bothered me how quickly they dismiss killmongers’ rage just because it’s rage, there is still truth in it, and then they team up with the only white character to stop his radical beliefs? kinda weak...

 

This is partially why I wish Erik hadn’t been killed off. Without a force pushing T’Challa’s ideals further, I wonder what future Black Panther movies will look like. I’m guessing they use the ending of this movie as an excuse to integrate Wakanda and T’Challa into the MCU and future films we get end up standard studio Disney/MCU fare, because I just don’t trust Disney, even after the smashing success of a politically and socially nuanced film, to learn all the right lessons from that success. It took them 18 movies over 11 years to even get here. I’m guessing progress will be slow, especially if Coogler isn’t helming the sequel.

Also, much as I enjoyed the movie, I’d like to see Coogler dip back into smaller, more restrained realism. Fruitvale Station is still his best film, as stellar as Creed and Black Panther are.

 

Yeah, my brother who is more liberal than me to my leftist, his response was, "but yeah he wanted revenge!"

I told him if say, those spears were all of the sudden being used to take apart US military complexes across Africa I'd be perfectly fine with that.

 

Yeah this is what I'm afraid of. What I love about this movie in regards to all other MCU films and Super Hero films in general is how thought provoking it is. I'm all for changes made from the original source material, but you never change what makes the comic or character great in general. If the movies lose its political and social nuance, I'm sure it will be a fine film, but it would lose so much of what makes Black Panther comics so good.

 

Less emphasis should have been placed on Klaue in the first half of the movie in favor of spending more time on the clash of ideologies between T'Challa and Erik. I think a better way for the film to have gone would have been for Erik to have captured Klaue alive near the beginning of the film (in a big action setpiece if need be to make Marvel happy) and delivered him, again, alive, to Wakanda as a sign of friendship. He shouldn't have immediately showed up and been hostile to T'Challa. Maybe he even attends the coronation ceremony. He doesn't reveal his royal lineage, instead saying he's the son of a Wakandan spy from the United States but didn't know his father/mother much because they died when he was young. Then he spends the first half of the film essentially sowing discord and subtly spreading his beliefs amongst receptive Wakandan leaders (like W'Kabi, who already is predisposed to like Erik because he did what T'Challa couldn't and captured Klaue). He and T'Challa could clash verbally when T'Challa learns what he's been up to, and really develop their personal philosophies on what Wakanda's role should be in the world. This approach would have really highlighted his intelligence and reinforced the charismatic nature of his character as well.

Then, halfway through, once he's built up enough support, Erik reveals his true identity, and then the rest of the movie plays out just as it did except for the ending. T'Challa saves Erik's life despite his desire to die, and he's kept around for a sequel. Then in the sequel, T'Challa has to call on Erik's help when Klaue manages to escape their custody, and as they work together to bring down this living embodiment of the white colonizers who devastated the African continent, the themes of the first film could be developed more in the interactions between the two cousins. Maybe Erik sacrifices himself at the end in a way that reinforces his worldview for T'Challa, and maybe it leaves T'Challa a little more radical than he was at the end of the first film. Just how I would've done it.

 

It's completely disingenuous to say that the film "celebrates" black on black violence. Though the action scenes were staged to be exciting set pieces, none of the characters were excited about having to fight each other except for Erik. Even saying that this film celebrates violence rubs me the wrong way.

 

I think you’re missing the point on what she means by celebrating violence. Anytime we watch violence as entertainment whether it be in the NFL or an on screen big action block-buster, we celebrate violence. It’s a violence we as a society deem justified or necessary or just allowable.

In this movie we’re celebrating two Kings fighting each other to the death on... how to deal with the bigger enemy of white supremacy?

 

I kinda wish Killmonger succeeded in some capacity. The stakes could have felt a lot higher if one of the carriers made it out.

 

Nah this was the Towson one. I run the Regal in Hunt Valley

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the sequels are not as thought provoking. The main reason this one was is due to Killmonger and he is the only Black Panther with those views. To Marvel, having T’Challa agree to share Wakanda’s resources is probably both the closure and reaction to Killmonger.

 

Ughhhhhh... please no. I hope not.

 

To be fair, one of those kings wanted to kill the other. Killmonger wanted T’Challa dead out of revenge for his father being killed. T’Challa didn’t want to kill Erik.

 

They could stretch it out if Nakia becomes Malice due to Killmonger being responsible for Malice in the comics although he doesn’t influence her goals (maybe have her become Malice because she doesn’t think what T’Challa did was enough although it would rip her from her comic book motives). It also depends if Coogler would want to repeat the same issue with a new villain.

 

True... it was a battle to the death/incarceration of a black man who wanted to up end the social order.

Damn... that sounds even worse.

 

I think it would have been interesting if T’Challa just knocked Killmonger unconscious (I still don’t like the idea that all Marvel villains die) and for him to try to persuade Killmonger to go about his revolution in a way that wouldn’t cause innocent people to die. Using Michael B Jordan, as an actor, in just one film is a waste.