Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Jan 15, 2018.
What you're saying is someone should patiently wait until the racist or sexist person gets all those terrible hot takes out of their system and maybe, just maaaybe they might listen and change their mind. There's no time for that. If they're not willing to be humble and say "Help me understand this" or "This is how I feel, can someone help me work through this" in some degree, then there's no use trying. He absolutely was not trying to do that. He was throwing bombs and watching people scatter.
After 15+ years of running a medium to large community I have a pretty good radar for what's someone being a troll and not actually wanting to have a discussion and engage, and those that are.
The other weird bit was that poster’s insistence that maybe the first poster just “doesn’t communicate well.” I don’t know why some are so willing to look for excuses, without any evidence, to justify compassion for toxic behavior.
Moving forward the conversation people need to be having is "enthusiastic yes" and not just assuming an absence of no = yes
I don't know why this is so fucking hard for some people to understand
Especially coupled with their posting history.
apparently this hard for people to understand
lol, Dom and I were talking about that fucking app last night. God damnit this world is a more of a disaster every day.
you guys respond like that to most people on this website who disagree. Not just him
most bigoted/sexist/racist views on this site get shut down in the same manner, yes
That just happens to be this situation. There are posters who don't have a previous history of trolling that get treated the same way all the time
I understand your sentiments and the fact that, it's well, your site, but for someone who campaigns for social change and is as active in politics as you appear, it seems counter intuitive that you're happy to create a bubble and surround yourself with only like minded people. You complain about the state of things and pass up opportunities like this to allow discussion and change. Some people (like Terry) are obviously going to never change their mind and I am all for their ban, but there are people who display and communicate opinions that are very much malleable yet you seem content to allow them to be told to 'fuck off' and 'fuck off outta here' instead of allowing their attitude to hang out in the open and be responded to. In reading and discussing on here, I have changed a lot of my opinions and think of things in a different way and I don't think I'm alone. However, discussion has to be allowed first for opinions to change. It's a fine line but it appears anybody who doesn't support the status quo in here, even amicably, is ran out, oftentimes rudely.
Thank you. You're post is a lot more fleshed out than mine was but this was exactly the point that I was trying to make
Wanting a "bubble" around where I work, spend most of my time, and personally created absolutely makes me happy. I'm not going to run a website/community that makes me miserable. Did that before, it was fucking hell. That's like 75% of the reason I created this thing. There's countless places for shitty people to congress and spout racist shit and people to argue about how much of a nazi they are. My desire to not spend most of my life in that arena and the thing I personally create, doesn't make those go away.
No, I simply realize the difference between the people that will or could change and those that are trolling online bigots. This is not hard to understand, I feel like you have to be willfully ignoring the words I'm saying to get to this point.
A bad one?
That's because these people are wasting most of their time and energy on actively defending obvious assholes instead of actually listening to what others are saying and - God forbid - trying to learn from it.
Most of the time I see people get rude even in the slightest on these forums it's toward posters who are bringing up tired old troll-y points that have already been responded to/discussed earlier and more civilly in the thread.
There are only so many times you can answer the same question over and over and over again before telling people to fuck off... people know when they're being purposefully inflammatory.
People who want to listen and who want to learn generally do that on their own.
People who need to have the folks that their views actively harm hold their hands and protect their fee-fees through the education process generally do not actually wish to learn. They wish to center the conversation around themselves and learn - but only if that knowledge means they are not actually called to action or are part of the problem.
I have gotten the "thank you, I hadn't thought it about it that way before" response enough times that I'll trust my own judgment about my tone and my approach to education. People learn REGARDLESS when they're ready to. If they're not interested in growth, they don't learn just because you used kid gloves.
This would be the vast, vast, vast majority.
(Or the drive-by "white lives matter!" poster.)
The other side of the argument doesn't always have to be troll-y and just because it's tired to you, doesn't mean the person saying it, has said it a thousand times and ignored the responses. I am sure this site is being discovered all the time by new users. If someone comes in and has what you consider a troll-y attitude, or a I've heard it a dozen times before 'wrong response' a cut and paste response of why they're wrong, does more for progress than you (or whoever) deciding they're here for the LOL's and saying fuck off.
1. If they “get treated the same way all the time” that probably indicates they DO have a history of posting shitty things.
2. The poster and their history is only part of the context. It doesn’t matter if they’re typically on the right side of things or what their history is. If Jason, for some reason posted something problematic, victim blaming, or perpetuated rape culture, he’d get rightfully shut down too. It’s not hard to educate yourself or to take a step back and earnestly ask what was wrong about what you said. There are tons of women and other marginalized people writing articles on what was wrong about what Aziz did, about coerced consent, enthusiastic consent, rape culture, etc. there’s no excuse to not hear these women and their voices and perspectives and listen and learn and change your stance and approach to these situations.
If said person can't be bothered to read through a (fairly short, before all this nonsense) thread for discussion relating to the questions they have, i'm not really sure why they're on a forum to begin with, and it's certainly not my responsibility to read for them.
Being "yelled" at was far more effective in opening my eyes about rape culture than long debates. I can 'debate' for hours with anyone on any topic, being told to shut the fuck up and read a few articles went a long way. I had to get old enough and grow on my own, do a lot of personal work to get to that point. And then do a looooooot of reading and learning.