Avengers: Infinity War (Joe & Anthony Russo, April 27, 2018) Movie • Page 60

We don’t agree on the criticisms so there’s not much to address other than I hope you enjoy A4 more so that you don’t find as many criticisms to be disappointed with.

 

Not asking for a script per se. Just curious if, in your opinion, there are some fixes in story telling that could have happened in this movie or if you feel like the movie itself is fundamentally flawed in and of itself - like, do you think this film COULD have been better with better story telling or do you think it was essentially doomed because of the story it was trying to tell?

 

Absolutely. Whether you think it's been done well or not, that's what a lot of the MCU has been exploring. Not to say that the heroes are showing off perfect senses of morality, it's to question whether the heroes are always right. It's been a constant topic since Avengers at least but even the first Iron Man movies had people coming after Stark because of what he was doing. They're heroes but that doesn't mean everything they do is right. They've even fought each other over it.

They have the power to do so much but should they? and where is the line drawn? What if they fuck up? Idk, that's what I've seen in pretty much every Marvel movie to some degree.

 

Man, they've failed miserably if this is their theme. (And it started with their failures in Civil War, which I've already written about at length about how badly they tackle that issue there.)

 

This would not have been the way I would have written IW. There's an interesting story here, but the seeds should have been planted going all the way back to the first Avengers, and I think the flaws in those movies are compounded here.

 

It's one thing for this movie to throw the character growth of Homecoming and Ragnorok under the bus, because they were made by other filmmakers. But this movie throws the moral/philosophical conflict of Civil War under the bus too, and that was made by the same filmmakers! That movie, while not perfect, grappled with a truly interesting interpersonal conflict between these characters, and truly divided them and that felt heavy (dumb flip phone ending aside). But in this movie, they literally wave away that conflict when it's presented to them and everyone just accepts that they're all good. Because Thanos is coming, I guess. Which goes back to one of my original critiques: these characters in survival mode is not an interesting place to work from, because all the other stuff takes a backseat when the only question they're being asked is "Would you do x to save untold life in the universe", and the answer, literally every time, is yes.

As for what this movie could have been "about", it could be about family and sacrifice, because those pieces are there. Center it around Thanos' sacrifice of Gamora, Peter's "sacrifice" of Gamora, and Wanda's sacrifice of Vision (though if you ask me, Peter should not have pulled the trigger on Gamora. He just should not have been able to. Contrast him with Thanos). Juxtapose Thanos' distorted view of family and love against the Avengers found family dynamic (and even literal family in the case of Thor/Loki, T'Challa/Shuri, and Ant-Man and Hawkeye and their domestic lives). Skip most of the repetitive action and seeing characters we've never seen meet before getting to meet (fun as it might be, it really isn't doing anything for the story or characters*), and instead of that really dramatize these relationships so that when the tough choices come, they really feel like the end of the world, not something we all know will be reset in another two and a half hours of this story. You'd have to narrow the focus a lot, which means maybe less screentime for Spider-Man or some of the other ancillary heroes, but that makes a more meaningful story. I care less about seeing a million movie stars trade quips than I do a story making me feel something for its characters.

* - The one new characters meeting moment I did enjoy in this movie was Star Lord's reaction to the Guardians fawning over Thor.

 

I think morality isn't always simple and I think these movies do a good job at showing that. They also show a bunch of people trying their best to make the world a better place despite that which I think is a great message to have, especially now.

 

People also seem to be perfectly okay with the deaths in this movie not be permanent, which seems ridiculous to me. What's the point of any of this if characters dying can just be ignored?

 

I forgot who posted in here earlier that they thought they saw a girl in the Thanos scene at the end of the film. I looked for it during my second viewing and didn’t see anything.

 

Even at its weakest, it’s still better than the dog turds DC has put out sans WW.

 

Comparable. (Ignoring Nolan's films.) They suffer from a lot of the exact same problems as BvS and JL. Superman's death isn't earned and is full of low stakes (and was rightfully critiqued) and that's not that far off from the "deaths" here.

 

For me, the fact that the deaths were able to occur is something I wanted to get out of the film. Regardless if all of them come back, the fact that Thanos was able to accomplish his goal and the survivors had to witness it is something that will stick with those characters.

 

But, as is historically the case in these movies, the person that "wins" the morality argument ... has been the wrong person!

 

But if they're able to come back, what's the point of watching 18 movies or whatever it is to lead up to this?

 

This movie was great, straight up. People are complaining just to complain. It’s a super hero movie, and probably the best one we’ve had. Idk how people are saying Thanos is a shell, did you miss every scene where they got into what happened and why he is doing everything?

There are flaws, but some of the posts in here are just people whining cause they didn’t get exactly what they wanted. Like you are whining about the characters not meeting exactly how you wanted them to, and you knew going in that they wouldn’t have the time.

Thanks to everyone who used spoiler tags, I would have been pretty upset if someone with zero self control ruined this movie for me.

 

Man I don't think this is comparable to BvS or JL at all in terms of quality.

(I would be willing to make that comparison with Age of Ultron tho)

 

This is such a ridiculous argument I can't take anything else you say seriously.

 

That’s exactly what you guys are doing. Carry on though

 

Wanna complain more about spoilers in a movie thread or?

 

I think that works for this movie. Everything gets put aside for this. This enemy is so big that Spider-Man can't afford to just stay close to the ground during this. Iron Man and Cap can't worry about their differences, even the government need to just let the heroes do their job. Every one putting aside their differences or their own personal struggles/problems to come together to face the real danger. I don't think this erases any of that or makes them not matter, Spider-Man still made that choice, he was just forced into it before he was ready. That's how life goes sometimes.. I'm not sure how well these things will be handled after this movie, whether the government will go back to wanting superheroes to register or whether Spider-Man will go back to the small stuff but I felt like the places this movie took these characters made sense.

 

Nathan had good points, but at some point it’s like, holy fuck.

 

Nathan critiques every movie like this, it's his thing! (And I'm not complaining!)

 

I can if you would like me too

 

I pretty much agree with this

 

Nah, I can complain about a lot of things just to complain about them ... (like how Captain America spending his time kissing someone while speeding along in car to catch a plane is one of the dumbest scenes I've ever seen or how mechanizing Spider-Man's suit in Homecoming is obnoxious), but that's not what anyone is doing here.