Avengers: Infinity War (Joe & Anthony Russo, April 27, 2018) Movie • Page 11

I wondered what would cause Ant-Man to go from a crisis like Thanos to doing his own thing in Ant-Man And The Wasp. Now it makes more sense.

 

Captain Marvel is officially in the second film.

 

AVENGERS 4 Set Pics Seemingly Confirm That Jeremy Renner's Clint Barton Will Take Up The Mantle Of Ronin

 

Brolin said these will be the last films the Russos do with Marvel

 

I have a feeling this is going to be Secret Invasion.

 

I'm fine with that. 4 films of escalating scale within the same world over the course of 6 years is a lot. Plus, with the way Gunn, Waititi, and Coogler have been able to collaborate with Marvel, I'd rather have more new voices (ideally not white dudes) get a shot.

 

Would Jewish directors count as non-white?

 

Besides the non white thing, creative minds staying on one property for too long never works out, even for great ones like Rami and Nolan. It is time for them to move on after Avengers 4.

 

I would rather just get the best of the best and the directors who have a good vision for the characters. If they're white, they're white, if they're not white, they're not white.

 

my feelings as well. I don't care if my directors are men, women, white, non-white, canine, or android. make a great movie.

 

Android might be suspect. Please don't automate the film industry.

 

It is halfway there with the way some films are made. They are put into a generic grinder that's made to please critics.

 

I thought about it as I was posting it. lol. Films are basically an assembly line at this point. Robots are the next logical step.

 

The thing is, the "best" is a broad idea that covers a lot of people, and it often conveniently excludes women, POC, etc. There's no reason why a studio like Marvel can't get awesome new voices while also creating new opportunities for minority voices that are often marginalized in the industry at large.

This is in very poor taste.

 

Arguing direction is just pointless. Knowing the writer of Scooby Doo AND Scooby Doo: Monsters Unleashed developed the cosmic side of Marvel well and that the directors of You, Me & Dupree would elevate Captain America and the rest of the Avengers to quality epics would've scared the shit out of people if you told them that about 5 years ago. But here we are... Just give a director a chance and hope for the best, regardless of race, gender, past work, etc.

Of course, I certainly think that undoubtedly helps like their search for a Black Panther director ending up with Ryan Coogler and working through some of the best female writers and directors for Captain Marvel, but, ultimately, hope they have a great vision for what you want to achieve for the character. It's hard to believe Marvel would have a bad vision for their own characters. They'll make little mistakes here and there, but they've got this great world continuing to build and change over a decade. It's hard to not trust them.

 

I think they should just go with who offers them the best vision and says “this is what the character is going to go through and what they are about”. If Marvel Studios asks themselves “this person has a great vision, but they are not part of a minority. Should we hire them?” then they are already sacrificing quality to fit a quota.

Ryan Coogler had the best vision because he can relate to the Black Panther character while female writers will be able to relate to Captain Marvel, so those make perfect sense.

 

I'm starting to think that maybe Avengers 4 will be about Thanos successfully altering reality and the Avengers dealing with that and trying to reverse it back

 

That's not remotely what I'm asking for, nor is it remotely how picking directors for Marvel films works. There is a massive, diverse wealth of filmmakers out there that Marvel Studios could recruit. People who work with the studio sometimes talk about how strong the support system is for relatively new filmmakers, so it's not like getting someone who hasn't work on a big scale would be an issue. Plus, they're literally already picking people without any notable big film experience! They're just getting boring white dudes like Jon Watts. At least they got Taika Waititi for Thor: Ragnarok and would've had Patty Jenkins for Thor: The Dark World had they let her do what she wanted (which surely would've been better than what we got).

The whole quality thing is also ridiculous because it's not like they'd be forgoing these massive names while making it a priority to recruit fewer white men. Where's the Steven Spielberg Marvel film, or the Terrence Malick Marvel film? People like James Gunn and the Russos have done a great job so far, but I refuse to believe that Jon Watts and Peyton Reed brought much to their Marvel entries that so many other filmmakers couldn't have done just as well. There's no way someone can reasonably argue that finding equally talented individuals who don't all look like the same person would be remotely difficult for a studio like Marvel. I mean, heck, Kevin Feige and Lexi Alexander had a good working relationship on Punisher: War Zone, so I bet he could ask her for some advise on where to look if he wanted to.

If you don't understand why this matters, you've gotta take a step back and look at how terribly racist and sexist Hollywood on a macro scale still is. Look at some of the abysmal statistics on how many films by women major studios put out a year. Compare that to how few films a year have just one scene where a woman talks to another woman about something other than a man, and women are about half of the world's population! Also, check out how white and male the Oscars are most years. And so on. I mean, heck, look at all that crap surrounding people like Harvey Weinstein. The industry as a whole is super gross. Marvel Studios is a nearly unstoppable juggernaut that has the power to raise the profile of new voices in a way that will genuinely affect representation in the industry both in front of and behind the camera, and they don't even have to make any sacrifices in film quality to do so.

By the way, while women, POC, etc. are by far the most important to get for projects like Black Panther and Captain Marvel, getting them for films starring established white dudes still matters a lot, too. Getting POC like Taika Waititi to helm films like Thor: Ragnarok might help keep supporting casts more interesting than a mix of white men, white women, and black men. Also, getting more women as writers and directors will help keep supporting women from being mishandled, like Black Widow was in Age of Ultron and Hope was in Ant-Man. While it's absolutely important to get more Marvel films not fronted by white men named Chris, letting the established franchises that already do get a stronger range of voices in the creative process is another major step in getting these films more representative of the world we live in.

 

Awfully convenient that the vast majority of superhero movies has white male leads, ensuring, based upon this way of thinking, jobs for white male writers / directors.

And yes, Coogler’s history of being an African prince did help him relate to Black Panther. Marvel really lucked out there.

 

That is literally how James Gunn and Scott Derickson got their directing/writing positions for Doctor Strange and Guardians. They pitched their idea and vision for the characters. Scott made storyboards.

I never argued that the industry isn't super gross and racist/sexist and that it shouldn't end. Marvel Studios cares about quality instead of the color of the director and I think they have gotten more progressive over time and that they will continue to get women and POC as writers and directors. Marvel may start getting directors to come back, though. James has his Guardians trilogy, Scott is doing Strange 2, Ryan will probably do all of the Black Panther films but if he doesn't i'm sure the inevitable sequels will have POC directors. A Miles Morales movie should be written and/or directed by someone of the same ethnicity or one of the ethnicities. I think the future of Marvel Studios is in a position to be pretty progressive. I'm just down for whatever comes as long as the stories are good.

 

Are you implying African Americans have to be African princes to relate or see themselves as Black Panther?

 

You literally suggested that you have to be black to relate to black panther or a woman to relate to captain marvel.

 

I said that? I don't recall saying they "have to be". I just said that they can relate to the characters more than someone who can't see the representation of their race or sex in those characters.

Keep reaching for apples, man. They're high, but i'm sure you'll find a way to keep reaching.

 

How did James Gunn and Scott Derrickson get meetings with Marvel Studios to begin with? It's not like Kevin Feige is chilling in some office space 40 hrs a week for anyone to go in and pitch their ideas for Marvel films.

There's a finite amount of time to be spent meeting potential filmmakers, and white male filmmakers already have a leg up on everyone else in Hollywood. And, white men aren't inherently more creative than women or POC, nor are fans of mainstream superheroes exclusively white dudes. By scouting out film festivals that specialize in giving marginalized voices a platform and reaching out to people who stand out to see if a Marvel Studios production is something they'd feel at home writing and/or directing, this massive media empire would be able to empower perspectives that Hollywood doesn't give enough attention while still easily producing successful blockbuster successes with a fair balance of safety and creativity.

The present and recent past of Marvel Studios has been in just as good a position to be "pretty progressive" as the distance future of Marvel Studios. Imagine if Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Luke Cage, Cloak & Dagger, etc. had gotten a film in Phase 2. Or if Monica Rambeau (formerly Captain Marvel, leader of the Avengers at one point in the 80s, currently going by the name Spectrum) had been in one of the first two Avengers films. Or Miles Morales instead of the third Peter Parker. Or getting the Wasp sooner. The first two Avengers films didn't have to have core rosters that were 100% white. The first one didn't have to only have one woman. The first GOTG film could've included Mantis and/or Moondragon. We could've gotten at least ONE film out of the first SEVENTEEN films over the period of TEN YEARS without a white male lead.

I'm a massive Marvel Studios fan. I haven't hated one of their films since Iron Man 2. I find even weaker, safer, more forgettable films (*cough*Thor: The Dark World*cough*) pretty decent and enjoyable when I'm watching them. But, like, they have undeniably dropped the ball horribly when it comes to representation. And, even when they make those steps in the right direction like Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Taika Waititi helming Thor: Ragnarok, the ways that they've dropped the ball and the significant progress they still need to make is still worth repeated at every relevant opportunity.

 

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