I’d not sure how much new material was added to involve Doom, but much of Steve’s narrative was originally going to be part of the project that was announced in 2022(2021?) The writers that Marvel wanted (McFeely and Markus) were busy with the Russos and it never actually developed. With McFeely committing to Doomsday, that idea was reworked to be told within this story. So we can kinda thank the horrible films (Gray Man, Electric State) for this. We probably would have still seen him in Kang Dynasty/Doomsday if the original project was made, but who knows if his role would be as significant as it is now.
The film is more than likely going to start with Sam’s team already together, so no, we won’t know how they formed unless one of the trailers reveals it
Audio from the second teaser leaked. It focuses on Thor. The Avengers theme is playing on a soft piano and Thor is praying to Odin (“Of all the crowns, the kingdoms, the pride, I ask for none. Father, hear your son. I am not worthy of life, but still I beg you to let the thread lengthen. Not for thunder, not for war… let me remain long enough to see my love once more.”) I can’t make all of it out. I assume he’s talking about his daughter, Love. The music becomes somber and we hear church bells and footsteps
I mean more that the Steve one is interesting just by way of being Steve, but if that's the Thor one, it kind of doesn't mean anything to me unless we're hinting at Foster returning from Valhalla. I mean, we know Thor is in the film already. Just seems weak as a follow-up.
You've been around these parts long enough to know my feelings regarding representation in the MCU. Likewise, I've interacted with you enough times that I'm sure you didn't mean anything malicious by your comment. So idk why I'm so irrationally angry at this idea that so much progress made in these later phases, so many different characters, could be excusably pushed aside just for these two white men to get the spotlight again.
My take on the teasers is that they’re just establishing three main characters to bring in hype: Steve, Thor, and Doctor Doom. Which is ironically also the “trinity” of the Infinity Saga with Evans, Hemsworth, and RDJ. But with these Avengers films, it’s also good to remember these won’t be the “leads” (aside from Doom, ofc). Sam, Shang-Chi, Reed, & Yelena have sizable roles. They may even have more screen time despite the narrative working around the “originals.”
I'm thinking how best to respond because my comment was meant to just be a flippant take on the fact that we are juggling loads and loads of characters and I hesitate to think any one of them is getting the spotlight as it were. Infinity War and Endgame both had a large cast and I think did a great job of deftly handling all of them and giving every character moments to shine. However, I also recognize I have no skin in this game like you do, so anything I say can only come from that perspective, and recognizing that you have a way of looking at this that I will never know personally. So with that, and being honest, at first blink I'm really not thinking much of anything at all except hoping that they make a good movie that sticks the landing since this Saga has been so haphazard storywise. The fact that they have two films to play with means that they have room to focus more on one set of characters this film and focus more on others next film, just like they did with Infinity War and Endgame. At the end of the day though, the unfortunate reality is that Disney is trying to correct course on the franchise and get people back in theaters. Shang-Chi, the Young Avengers, the Thunderbolts, Sam Wilson, their projects did varying degrees of "alright" to "not alright". If the goal is to get general audiences to sit down for the film, I can see why they would be reluctant to hinge their marketing on them, at least initially, and especially since several of them were introduced or progressed in TV shows that they can't rely on people having watched. And so they're turning to people and characters that they know everyone recognizes and pushing this as a sequel to Endgame, which everyone saw. Does that mean those new characters will take a backseat? I don't know. I hope not, and I don't think they will anymore than anyone took a backseat in Infinity War or Endgame. We know most of the characters I mentioned will be in Doomsday, and I imagine they'll show again in Secret Wars, and various leaks have hinted that the Young Avengers will show in Secret Wars at least. I also think that if we're trying to tie this "Saga" together, continuing to push the idea of "passing the torch" like they've subtly been doing would be a good move. Maybe whatever happens in Doomsday forces the Young Avengers to form and help save the day in Secret Wars. Make this all mean something. Have the old (Steve Cap, Downey) give way to the new. That's just my take though.
that's the thing, tho, i hate that they're playing it safe. i'm afraid they're learning the wrong lessons from each film's success (or lack thereof) and listening to the wrong portions of the fanbase. they could've recast Kang, it's not like the Black Panther situation. but instead they chose to bring back old directors who chose to bring back old actors, it's frustrating. their priority should be making a good movie (ideally with good, diverse representation), not making a movie that will sell well. the whole passing the torch idea is a nice sentiment. they'll have to address at some point that Doom looks like Tony, tho, right?
I agree that they could have recast Kang, I've championed that from day one, and I'm really still not sold that Downey had to be the one to portray Doom unless that is a significant part of the storyline, and I have to believe that with the saga's focus on variants, if they're interested in telling any kind of cohesive narrative for this Saga, they absolutely should make that the reason for Downey's casting. If they don't, they're dumb. I also agree the focus should be making a good movie but again, reality ensues. Thunderbolts was a good movie and it didn't move the needle, and I'm sure that had a lot to do with most of the cast coming from either TV or from Black Widow, which did alright. And at the end of the day, if we want to see more adventures of anyone, the money has to come from somewhere. This whole Saga has been botched, honestly. I've enjoyed it more than most, but while the Infinity Saga was a narrative with a very clear direction, here we have entire films divorced from the main narrative, nothing meaningfully tying the films together, several plot points that have not been followed up on even dating back to the start of Phase 4. They should have had new characters appear in other films to help connect the tissue, even if it was a cameo like Falcon in Ant-Man, but instead we have new characters like Shang-Chi, Moon Knight, and Kate Bishop that have had slim-to-no interaction with the wider world. COVID and strikes certainly played their role, but if they really had a coherent plan for this storyline from the get-go instead of focusing on quantity of content and release flexibility, then it's possible people would have had these characters grow on them and be more open to seeing them again. And involving the TV shows so deeply was a mistake. It's easier for people to follow along in two hour films every season than a six-to-eight hour show. For general audiences not willing or able to invest that time, it's a death sentence. What I hope they do moving forward is not reboot the universe, because that would be a fucking waste, but recalibrate their approach, which it sounds like they're doing anyway. Keep TV shows but have them be ancillary material and keep the main overarching plotline for the films, and let characters show up more often, even if it's in an odd place, to allow for further connectivity and let people get familiar with them. Hell, putting someone in an odd place can make for a fun situation.
At this point I don't think it's that big of a deal. This is the MCU we have and until there's a big change in leadership at Marvel/Disney we aren't really going to see any significant changes.
There’s going to be a fascinating book in a few years about how bad Chapek ruined Disney. From his volume over quality approach to the constant parks add one, he really put them on a path they still can’t escape. Not that Iger 2.0 has been much better, but Chapek really derailed things.
I think we’ll see changes with the X-Men and post-Secret Wars stories. Marvel is occupied with making sure they get the grace of the audiences again through these next two Avengers films. But once SW releases, that’s it. Certain actors will be gone. These characters will get new actors and the nostalgia won’t be an easy thing to walk back to. Marvel will have to use their new characters/actors. I also do not see Marvel exploring the mutants without diversity. That’s just too crucial to what the mutant world is.
I think you all could spend your time better than talking about what they’re gonna do in like 5 years lol