Anthony Rapp: Kevin Spacey Made a Sexual Advance Toward Me When I Was 14 • Page 4

Production on Season 6 is officially halted. I guess it was not nearly as finished as I thought.

 

You know what else I’m tired of? Writing a really long, thought out reply and getting a tiny temper tantrum in reply. It must be so nice to be able to have these conversations with zero emotional stake so that you can keep being obtuse and pretending we’re in ethical debate theory 201.

Anyway, here’s my succinct take: fuck Kevin Spacey and every man taking advantage of the less privileged. But especially fuck a cis white man throwing the gay community under the bus to excuse his own actions and feeding into a dangerous, harmful misconception.

 

Do you know what my FB feed has been full of? Not bigots claiming that this is what happens when queerness becomes accepted, but silly silly 'allies' saying "well I know it looks bad but kudos to Spacey for finally having the courage to live as his authentic self".

BARF!!!

 

I'm pretty sure this person is just trolling

 

Minor edit. Same question.

 

As per usual with these topics, this thread just conjured from within me a formidable "BLEGH!" the likes of which Sam Carter from Architects or Drew York from Stray From The Path would be impressed by.

 

I always thought spacey was a good actor, great impersonator, and funny.

Now, because of what he did, and how he deflected it to 'Im gay' - I think he sucks.

 

I know what I'm listening to tonight.

 

Has anyone from the TV Show commented yet? I havent seen anything.

 

Second man accuses Kevin Spacey of sexual harassment

 

Dustin Hoffman now, too. Fuck.

Dustin Hoffman Sexually Harassed Me When I Was 17 (Guest Column)

 

Not to get toooooo off topic but Hatebreed can be credited for that.

 

Something @kaylasananjou said earlier echoed thoughts I've been having/struggling with recently.
She said "Most men can and will commit abuse against those less powerful than them. It’s a symptom of a toxic culture that we are all born into and must fight against. "
I've been struggling with this thought lately. I don't want to ever excuse or justify any kind of behavior, but I DO think it's worth noting and talking about the fact that a lot of these behaviors are a direct result of the kind of culture we are in.
I think calling out and talking about and 'fighting against' as Kayla said, are important. But in reality when most men can and DO commit acts of abuse, knowingly or not, how can we really move forward? Like, what can they actually do when they have been called out for this abuse. Are there actions they can take to be regarded as an okay person again? I just feel that if we condemn all men for their abuse, we would be condemning almost everyone. And I truly want to believe that people can change and learn and grow.
My apologies if this isn't eloquently expressing my complex thoughts on this topic. But I'd love to hear from anyone that has any sort of input about it.

 

I get what you're saying, and I think depending on the context of the situation, as well as the time period/if the person in power has carried themselves differently for some time since, they have a chance to own it, make the right apology for it in addressing it, and help push the issue to others attention. I do feel sometimes on this site people are unwilling to accept apology or think their concept of apology is the only way. If the person doesn't meet a personal standard of approval on here, they get crucified for it.


But with that said, since it's in this thread, Spacey's way was the complete wrong way.


I also just saw the story broke on Brett Ratner masturbating in front of Olivia Munn and forcing a woman to perform oral sex on him. Extremely gross, and this is a level of assault I would not accept apology for. It can't be looked at as such a result of culture, it's straight up abuse and assault and something I believe if you're capable of doing, you're a bad person. @Jason Tate have you read this yet? It's one of the worst ones imo.

Six women accuse filmmaker Brett Ratner of sexual harassment or misconduct

 

This is something I too have struggled with, and I'd love to hash out my thoughts, since you tagged me. First, my sympathies will always lie with victims above all. They are the most important part of these stories, without question. But I think overall, it depends on the crime. I fully believe in the process of accountability. I don't think there's a set path that works for everyone- for example, in cases where musicians have been accused of abuse or assault, I think the fastest and simplest way to show that they take it seriously is to remove themselves from the scene. The biggest problem is that usually, abusers are profiting from their abuse and very reluctant to give that up (see: PWR BTTM, more egregiously, Front Porch Step.)

If anyone has hurt someone and truly wants to atone for that, I think stepping away and immediately beginning counseling and therapy to modify their behavior is step one. Note that this doesn't require any victims to forgive or accept back their abuser. True accountability, in my opinion, is doing it for the personal victory of becoming a better and less harmful person, not to win back the favor of your victims. A big red flag for me that someone isn't sincere in their intentions is when they throw away all "progress" to attack victims who rightfully want nothing to do with them, therapy or no.

The problem with that path, of course, is that many of the abusive people, of any gender, don't see what they've done as wrong. They don't care to correct their behavior. They make excuses to sidestep accountability (see: Kevin Spacy, here). When someone is unrepentant and refuses to listen to any dialogue calling them out, I don't really see a path forward. I don't think that less privileged people are required to give chances over and over to people who don't want to change. I think that's how we've progressed to this point of toxicity in power imbalance in the first place- continual excuses and exceptions because the abuser in question is talented, or handsome, or whatever.

The way that we can work on this from the outset would ideally be to raise better men, in particular. As society becomes more aware of the problems that plague us, I can only hope that we are raising children who will be better than us. Obviously, we can never eradicate bad people. But we can try to build a culture in which their actions are rightfully scorned and properly punished, instead of swept under the carpet. I think this is a little rambling, but the point I am trying to make is that I don't think everyone who has ever done something wrong is a lost cause. I think it's entirely possibly to act "abusively" without realizing and to try and rectify those actions. In the case of sexual assault, however, I don't know that there is really a way to ever truly fix that about a person. I truly want to believe that people can learn and grow too. I haven't seen much of it, to be quite honest, but I still want to believe it's possible.

To maybe amend what I said in the post of mine you referenced - everyone has the capacity to commit atrocities. Everyone has the capacity to abuse someone else. What makes a difference is the willingness to learn, the willingness to continually examine and correct your own behavior, to listen when people tell you that you fucked up. I have worked to unlearn problematic behaviors my whole life. It's something I am constantly working on, and I would like to believe that most people would find it worthwhile to put in that kind of effort. Those are the people I believe can be seen as "okay" again.

 

any (white) man that has a significant amount of fame and can control power boundaries based on that at this point i very much assume it's more likely than not they've used it in disgusting ways

 

Not trying to inflammatory here, but there were rumours about Spacey doing this type of shit to young males for years, and rumours of Harvey Weinstein's appalling behaviour too - with those rumours being proved true, is it a case that we should expect the majority of rumours we've heard of this nature to be true also?

I'm instantly reminded of Corey Haim and Corey Feldman (the former in particular) who have long been rumoured to have been victims of rampant pedophilia in Hollywood that others have spoken out about (Elijah Wood) but nothing was ever done about it to my knowledge. Kevin Spacey's name always came up in those discussions but it seemingly couldn't be proved, and now it has come out that he sexually assaulted a 14 year-old boy. I know the danger of acting on unproven rumours, and the victims should be allowed to be the ones that come forward on their own free will, but with more and more stories coming out (Hoffman/Ratner as above), should we (perhaps not us per se, but people in the industry) be addressing all rumours at this moment in time?

 

this paragraph is what so many people that have strong opinions against "call out culture" don't get. there is no witch hunt, people aren't trying to just expel people who have done bad things, we aren't trying to ruin every single person who has done something horrible. but the accountability and showing you've changed as a person is something that so many abusers truly don't understand, even when that's brought to their attention

 

I give up.

 

Hoffman's story strikes me more so as a reflection of time in which that type of sexist and gross behavior was simply looked at as being funny and joking around. It clearly isn't, and present day/education on the matter is so different now. I would love for him to own up to it and admit he was acting extremely innapropriately, and hopefully apologize to that woman specifically for making her feel the way she did. It is the only story I am able to currently find about Hoffman being sexually abusive, I want to believe he is not and has not carried himself as such since.

 

I think it's important not to make excuses for people based on "the times," once they've had the opportunity to learn. It looks like Hoffman has issued a statement:

Dustin Hoffman apologizes for alleged 1985 sexual-harassment incident

I would like to hear a little more from him, but the fact that it's literally just him saying sorry for doing it is a step in the right direction. We've all said and done shitty things, and I think it's important to apologize for them if they're brought up and to show that you've worked to distance yourself from that version of you. Hopefully we can see more of that kind of reaction in the future.

Also @ all rich men, it never hurts to make some high profile donations, just sayin.

 

the crazy thing is that it's so easy to make a bullshit but still good enough apology even if you don't actually believe it, the fact that egos are getting in the way from even pretending to be a decent human being is so sick

 

I 100% am not making excuses for him, and if it read that way I apologize. I think I just try to have a level head in thinking that our generation is way more socially aware than the past. We are so much more educated and care about these matters 10x's more than anyone did in the 80's. While not seeing the damage being done, I think that it was socially accepted or looked at in a very different way, and believed to be okay when it clearly never should've been. I think that actors/directors/people in positions of power may have changed and educated themselves for the better since then, maybe even privately having feelings of remorse and from that point on carried themselves differently. In Hoffman's case, he doesn't have a track record aside from this situation of ever being a piece of shit on set, and if there are more cases of it I hope those victims find the courage to speak up as well.

The donations thing I think could be a touchy issue or in poor taste for some, depending on the situation.

 

I always thought he was kinda creepy.

 

So tired of seeing dudes pull a #NotAllMen and trying to distract from important discussions in threads like this. The world doesn’t revolve around you.

As an LGBTQ it’s also sad that Spacey felt the need to toss is orientation out like a lifeline or something. These situations are far too common and it’s so depressing.

Shoutout to all the great posts in here. I love y’all