Remove ads, unlock a dark mode theme, and get other perks by upgrading your account. Experience the website the way it's meant to be.

Allegations of Sexual Misconduct by Ex-Real Estate Guitarist Detailed by Seven Women • Page 2

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Fucking Dustin

    Please click "like" Supporter

    This news post isn’t about the “unfair victimization” of innocent men though. It’s about sexual assaults a man committed. We can take being generalized, instead of being upset about the generalization we can be examples of something better and do what we can to amplify the voices of women about this problem. Commenting solely on the generalization of men feels like a deflection from the real issue.
     
    AshlandATeam and Aaron Mook like this.
  2. zachmacD Oct 17, 2017
    (Last edited: Oct 17, 2017)
    zachmacD

    Trusted

    My response wasn't to the article. It was to Tate saying that this isn't a psychopath issue but a men issue. I apologize if it comes off that way.

    “I just don’t know how to say this other than I’m not so old and I have so much life to live,” he wrote in part. “I’ve learned from my mistakes and been very good for a long time.” this is sickening btw
     
  3. personalmaps

    citrus & cinnamon Prestigious

    It is a men problem, thought. I appreciate what you're trying to say, I do. I'm not trying to come off as hostile. But whether you commit crimes against women or not, you inevitably benefit from the system that harms us. Therefore, you have a responsibility to be aware of it. When people address these problems, they aren't saying "all men are inherently bad." Please know that.
     
  4. mercury

    modern-day offspring fanatic Supporter

    The problem is that sexism & misogyny are pretty deeply engrained in society (at least, it definitely is in the US), and it's really not a group of individuals with some sort of mental illness out here assaulting a bunch of women - it's regular dudes who have bought into ideas they've been taught as normal and sort of latched onto those. Often enough it's a guy whose friends (of all genders) would say is a "good guy" or whatever otherwise.

    So offering mental illness as a cause of committing sexual assault is a) wrong, and b) harmful, because someone who reads & believes that might think "oh, this woman who accused my friend of assaulting her must be lying because he's not mentally ill." It also might imply that having a mental illness makes you more likely to commit sexual assault, which is absurd, especially considering the amount of mental illnesses that stem from being the victim of sexual violence.
     
  5. zachmacD Oct 17, 2017
    (Last edited: Oct 17, 2017)
    zachmacD

    Trusted

    I don't think you're coming off as hostile at all but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I will agree that I benefit from this issue and also fact that I'm a professional white male.

    Still, I don't think that just because someone indirectly benefits from the marginalization of another person makes them the problem. It's the mindset of the person committing the act. There are a lot of people who internalize statements like the one I originally criticized, as men being inherently bad. Again, I've seen guys on this site trashing men in general because they're men and I can see men(mostly white males) developing a complex simply because they're men.
     
  6. cwhit

    still emperor emo Prestigious

    no, the people that become the problem are the ones that don't recognize that they are benefiting from things and don't look back at their behavior and understand what things are harmful, and they don't make changes and be accountable.
     
    zachmacD likes this.
  7. zachmacD Oct 17, 2017
    (Last edited: Oct 17, 2017)
    zachmacD

    Trusted

    I will definitely agree with your first paragraph. I do thing that sexism & misogyny are pretty deeply engrained in society and both men and women buy into it. I know a lot of women unfortunately who are treated terribly by men and just accept it because they just think that's how men are. I misspoke about the mental illness part of my argument. I would say that plays more of a role in toxic relationships where it's usually the male treating the women unfairly. The guitarist from Turnover is a good example of that. My dad suffers from bipolar disorder so I agree that mental illness doesn't make you more likely to sexually assault someone. I will say that sexism and misogyny is an unhealthy mindset that's been passed down unfairly to people who don't see anything wrong with the behavior because of how prevalent it is in our culture. I personally believe that people are inherently good. Everyone wants to be the hero in their story and that as a society, we need to educate everyone about why it's wrong and why it's been accepted for so long with out blaming a group that makes up half the population.
     
  8. St. Nate

    من النهر إلى البحر Prestigious

    That's an odd example to use. Doesn't sound like privilege. Just sounds like a woman who is really good at customer service.

    I'm not gonna address the rest of your post because it has already been addressed.
     
    dylan likes this.
  9. zachmacD

    Trusted

    She didn't provide the same type of service to the people in front of me. I should've included that
     
  10. St. Nate

    من النهر إلى البحر Prestigious

    That's odd. All the people in front of you used the wrong tape?
     
  11. zachmacD

    Trusted

    Dude, don't act stupid. I said she didn't provide the same type of service. You're getting more a response than your post deserves but I remember walking up to her thinking "this is going to be fun" based on her interactions with those in front of me. I live in a pretty urban area with lots of minorities and uneducated white people. My point was that I frequently notice how I'm treated when I'm being helped compared to others who belong to groups mentioned above.
     
  12. Fucking Dustin

    Please click "like" Supporter

    I just think we as men can always be doing better and as a result, are always a part of the problem until it is resolved. That's all
     
  13. St. Nate

    من النهر إلى البحر Prestigious

    Given your example of privilege and you describing blaming men as "carrying a burden" I find you.... a sorta an unreliable narrator is all.
     
  14. “It’s not a men problem.”

    ** argues with women about it **

    Oh ok.

    The statistics make it very clear it’s a men problem and I’m not about to apologize for demanding better and demanding accountability from them; even if you’re not being a creep, you have a responsibility to talk to your shitty friend that is, to fight for women’s rights, and to say enough is enough with the sexist jokes, acts, and other bullshit. Reading the stories last night from literally every single woman on my social feeds makes it even more clear that every single man is not doing enough.
     
    dylan, K0ta and kaylasananjou like this.
  15. zachmacD

    Trusted

    Oh ok, so discussing something with a member of the opposite sex counts as an argument. Got it. No one, myself included, argued against taking the responsibility of "talking to your shitty friend, fighting for women’s rights, and to say enough is enough with the sexist jokes, acts, and other bullshit"
     
  16. Jason Tate Oct 17, 2017
    (Last edited: Oct 17, 2017)
    Yes, that's actually the definition of the word:
    an exchange of diverging or opposite views, a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

    Great, then we agree that men are the problem and all need to carry the responsibility.
     
  17. Dominick

    Prestigious Prestigious

    Individuals exist within complex societies that develop ideological institutions which inform who these individuals become, what they do, their values, or, in other words, the common sense of given society. In the case of gender, the social relations that are produced, and reproduced, by those ideological institutions are oriented around dominance over women. How this manifests in day-to-day life can be seen in rape statistics, intimate partner violence, the restriction of abortion, getting a women drunk is a good way to get sex, the idea instilled in little boys that hitting a girl is a means to transmit the message that they like them. The list can go on. The end-result of these processes are young boys that conceptualize their relationship to women as one in which they are subjects within our regime, a regime whose connective tissue is violence, torture, disdain and, when challenged, unyielding hatred. Would you like to know how I know this? When men discuss this violence or rape against women, it always relates to the diminution of their ability to engage in it. Another way I know this is true is, the institutional resistance to women seeking out justice and the way in which they can be blamed for what happened to them. That no one is concerned that there is a backlog of tens of thousands of rape kits, each representing a traumatic event, each with a perpetrator that is likely free and, statistically speaking, close in proximity to their victim, demonstrates the social attitudes that are oriented towards women. So, you see, this isn't about you white, cis-male being bad as an individual; rather, what we are arguing is, man, as we understand him in this patriarchal system, is bad, both because of his actions and because of its attachment to social positions.
     
    Jason Tate likes this.
  18. Dominick

    Prestigious Prestigious

    I guess what I’m saying is, patriarchy has to be dismantled and, necessarily, that involves destroying modern men as a category because “manhood” only exists as a constituent element of patriarchy. By dismantling patriarchy, we dissolve that which produces men as we know them.
     
  19. Dominick

    Prestigious Prestigious

    Also, the idea that men are developing a complex is laughable. Imagine being part of a group in which one cannot simply trust that another group has good intentions, because it is literally life or death.