Accountability in Music • Page 979

I think the "he who shall not be named" stuff about the band is a bit weird and puts them on a pedestal when other threads of bands with abusive pieces of shit in them go on unobstructed (or obstructed by some, ignored by most). But it's Jason's choice and I respect it.

 

oh yeah fair I was just thinking this thread. my bad

 

I think the pedestal was there before that route was taken, and it has to do with the way those fans treat the band vs other bands. People do jump through hoops to defend other bands but I don't think the worship is quite the same as what people have for this band

 

Reading between the lines on some of these posts, I think there exists a subset of one-time Brand New fans who acknowledge what Jesse did was wrong, that are looking to engage online with other people who do not consider him to be Jesus incarnate like the subreddit insists, but not Jeffrey Epstein either.

The thing is, if such a place exists, it is not here. So just go away. It is literally that simple.

 

100%, they're psychotic and we are lucky to have made this space so unwelcoming for them that we rarely, if ever, get them here.

 

yeah idk how many more times it needs to be said. do what you want on your own time. talk about them somewhere else.

 

It can be bad here but when we compare it to the news thread a while back...yeah

 

The forum belongs to the larger community so the decision is everyone else’s to make but, IMO, if we want to create a welcoming and inviting environment, we should entertain whether making it less uncomfortable for Brand New fans to defend the band in this thread achieves that goal.

 

Welcoming and inviting means no creeps allowed

 

Although I do understand because they just wanna dangle their bullshit in front of everyone …

… but it doesn’t make sense why Brand New fans who have openly been able to discuss this band in a hundred different places on the internet for the last 7 years insist they NEED to come here and do it too.

Again, I know why. It’s just weird.

 

you should entertain sucking your thumb

 

Totally get that and at the same time, we have had 7 years of the same conversations with these ghost avatars and 9 year old accounts with sub 300 posts making the same bad arguments that we can tell with like 90% certainty right out the gate who is being honest and who is stirring shit.

on the news thread and in here for that Jesse guy, I tried asking genuine questions to them about why they’re excited and they just don’t respond because they know and I know what they’re really getting at. They’ll respond to the “fuck offs” and “get losts.” They’ll whine that we aren’t a tolerant community or that we don’t believe in restorative justice or whatever else they want to cry about and never actually engage with legit discussions when I and others ask “why are you exited to see someone accused of soliciting nudes from young girls?” Or “what steps can you point to in order for us to believe that Jesse has tried to become a better person or make right with his victims?” They don’t respond because they don’t care. They just want to feel 18 again and not think about the harm their heroes have caused.

 

So, I am completely fine dog piling and being flippant with these dorks if it scares them out of here faster because they’re not coming here in good faith, why should we act and respond like they are?

 

There is nobody on the planet who genuinely welcomes everyone. That’s the way it should be. We exclude people all the time for various reasons. Sometimes it’s petty and people should grow up. Sometimes it’s because of an individual’s actions and the harm they’ve done. There’s certainly a conversation that could be had about who is included, in general.

But I just don’t think someone who wants to defend a groomer or ignore their actions will ever land on the side of being included on here and I think that’s great.

 

I really don't think anyone is arguing for being nicer to Brand New fans lol. More so advocating that reading through 150 posts of the same dunks on the same users is annoying for people who actually want to use this thread for its intended purposed.

Don't think we should allow a Brand New thread either because it would be an absolute nightmare, if not impossible, to moderate. The level of worship for that band is...different than the others mentioned in the conversation. That's why I think the best solution for all is to ignore the ragebait or simply kick their dumbass out the moment they out themselves. The only reasons to discuss Brand New in this thread is 1. if there is news about the band's activity or situation, and 2. if an established user has a genuine question for the community. It's pretty easy to tell good faith from bad faith in here.

 

very recently came to terms with how comfortable i am engaging with BN's discography, it took a long time. if a song comes on shuffle, or someone plays them in the car, it brings me back to a time and place.. i'm thankful for that. this is something purely in private i created boundaries on. it's hard to believe that at one point in time this band was my world.

curiosity got the best of me and i threw on the reunion show live set. the whole thing ended up making me sad (the crowd, the lack of direct repentance over the years). i turned it off after less than a few minutes.

the band breaks up - no direct accountability towards very real people, with very real trauma
the band gets back together - no direct accountability towards very real people, with very real trauma

this reunion has caused me to reflect further, and i feel it's going to be a long time (if ever) i engage with their music again, even privately. i don't think i ever imagined how seeing them back together would make me feel, and now i have my answer.

victims of JL's actions had their lives upended. his selfishness and deceit towards all affected changed them forever. these people have a long journey ahead, and i say that as someone who has had to do the same.

no more justifying, no more talks of redemption. i beg everyone to hold their heroes accountable, and to remember that the road to recovery for these victims is long and sometimes unending.

 

i'm with you. we can probably end the discussion here

 

I think you’re misunderstanding. I’m saying that if people think dog piling is making it less inviting, the follow up is to consider whether the alternative of making it less uncomfortable for people to sneak in and post pro-Lacey stuff is more or less inviting. Tolerating that stuff via taking care not to hurt their feelings or dog-pile when they do it can also send an unwelcoming message that it’s OK to defend him here with little pushback expected.

 

this was my read of your comment

 

I think a percentage of the Brand New fans who come in here being antagonistic get exactly what they want when they do so, which is to cause ten pages of people being mad

 

I haven’t been active here for years, so maybe I shouldn’t jump into the meta convo on what should be allowed in this thread.

But as someone who’s actually dealt with unwelcoming environments because of things like my race and gender, I have less sympathy for people wanting us to be nicer to Brand New defenders and fans. Getting blowback in a forum post is really not that big of a deal.

I think we should be respectful of others. But I also think it’s on us as users to listen more than we speak. Which in this case would be actually reading a thread and getting a temperature check before commenting on something.

So yeah maybe we shouldn’t pile on in situations when it’s clear someone didn’t take the time to understand the vibe of the thread.

But imo that kind of pile-on isn’t really equivalent to someone coming in here and minimizing the BN situation. (Which seems to be what happens when an active fan drops in here.)

 

100%. This thread can be staunchly against Jesse Lacey/Brand New and what they did without going insane and spamming the thread for three days straight!

 

also If there was a separate Brand New thread it would be 90% of the what the last 10 pages have been

 

thank you! and I hope you're feeling better!

 

We getting there!! Gonna try to eat my first substantial food in days which also might be McDonald’s