Accountability in Music • Page 978

I’m glad that @Crisp X said it and did so thoughtfully. I think the majority of us are on the same page regarding our position on the band - maybe a smaller amount in that majority like me that has very complicated feelings about our emotional connection to the band and the music which can never fully be reconciled or discussed in this thread and forum. I’m not as active a poster in the thread but do enjoy learning from the discussions had and it is interesting to me where people land.

I absolutely agree that certain posters coming in this thread are coming in either blind or fully ignorant so I am not shading anyone for their approach to those people. It just can be an uncomfortable read in a place where we are ultimately a small community and I guess the difference between Chorus and ap.net was to foster a more understanding environment. If some people don’t want to engage and learn and understand, what can you do? But I think that’s where ignorance of the posters is probably better for me than some of the more abrasive approaches. Again, if that’s not the general consensus then absolutely fine, I would likely then avoid the thread for my own self. @JoshIsMediocre admire that you’ve got a very hard task moderating and liked your posts reminding people that they can step away from it.

 

On the contrary, that guy was informed about what a fool he was being and we came to terms with how that made us feel by burying him in the desert.

We held him accountable for being a jackass. Another successful venture.

 

I think that while the people coming in to defend Brand New or try and start a “nuanced discussion” when in reality they don’t want to hear the other side is bad, opening up this thread to see, as @Crisp X put it, a bunch of people/pages of people just responding “fuck off” or “grow up” or whatever…doesn’t make this thread appealing or welcoming for people to come into. Again, to be clear, the Brand New fans in here obviously should be called out, but a bunch of people all commenting hostile phrases in a row…I do feel like this thread should be better than that when discussing Brand New (or, not even get to that point as Crisp X also mentioned by timing out or banning the users defending Brand New). Yes, there are people who don’t want to listen and sometimes you have to be stern with them, I’m not disagreeing with that, but it’s just…a lot to see when like 20 users are all doing it.

 

tbh i'm not sure it needs to be?

 

well okay but you just said the thread wasn't actually for holding people accountable

 

That's cool and all but did they try to touch on the sexual assault allegations he's racked up over the years? He was a shitty person even without those but that kind of threw it into super shitty territory.

 

In the case of Brand New or like…Marilyn Manson, Kanye, etc. I would totally agree, but I do think this thread can be a welcoming space when situations are not so black and white, or someone does want to parse out their feelings (obviously without ignoring others opinions like some of the Brand New defenders are doing) but not do it in an album thread. Maybe that’s not possible in this thread, but it was what I was trying to get at with that part.

 

Has this thread devolved into pages of dog-piling and insults for any topic other than Brand New? If it’s a frequent trend, it seems worth curbing. If it’s a response specific to people trying to use this site’s usual tolerance to sneak in disguised coded defenses of Jesse Lacey then I’m apt to view it as a defense against that specific bad faith behavior.

I think it is uncomfortable to read but, for me, the discomfort comes not from the insults but from realizing and seeing how easy it is for people to use the right words and tone to open the door and try to lower tolerant people’s defenses, in an effort to post disinformation about and gross reframing of that band’s behavior.

 

1. I'm joking.

2. I meant celebrities and musicians.

3. I'm joking.

 

I mean, but it is black and white as far as what Jesse did.

Sure, how people view the band/music and how they choose to engage or not with it in light of what he did has some grey area. But that’s generally not what people are trying to discuss. They just want a place to praise the band. And fuck that shit.

 

Finished this.

He said he has a month left of his court things to finish up. I wonder if he will be able to maintain his sobriety once those mandates are done. That's always been his issue.

He goes into the part where he was arrested for doing drugs around his baby.

 

They didn't of course. I left the interview feeling like he hasn't changed as a person.

 

A lot of that comes from the fact that he's been so enabled to continue repeatedly. The two definitely go hand in hand which is why there's been so much backlash to some of these bands (I mean you know who) coming back. There is a possibility these people can change and grow. And there's an even stronger possibility that giving them their platform back will erase the change and encourage more of the same. We have plenty of examples.

(Supplementing your post not arguing with it obviously, just adding on)

 

A while ago, Donovan Melero of Hail The Sun introduced Jonny to an injection he takes once a week. I'll have to look for the podcast or interview that it's mentioned. Ever since then he has been sober. It was a while ago, but it has definitely been the longest he has been sober in his career. He either shares custody or has majority/full custody of his son as well.

 

Pittsburgh Stage AE comments were open as well and people were NOT fucking with it lol.

hell yeah king

I very much agree with this and appreciate @Crisp X verbalizing it in such an articulate way. It's not that bad faith actors don't deserve to be dunked on, because they do. But as someone who often DOES find this thread helpful, it becomes much less so when you have to wade through pages and pages of the same dunks. That attitude is fine when deserved, but imo, it has a habit of seeping into the way people post and interact with each other in other threads. That's how AP was. If we can either ignore the numbskulls or get them out of the thread the moment it's warranted, it becomes a lot more welcoming/accessible to those who genuinely want to use it to keep up on news regarding accountability in music.

I believe it should be in the sense that, if someone enters and has questions in good faith, we can recognize that and have those discussions without being hostile (until it's warranted). Obviously that isn't what's been happening with most, if not all, of the randos coming in here to post about Brand New.

 

I just think it's unproductive to oneself to take the time and emotional energy to type up a post to someone who's of the opposite opinion and is supporting who you no longer support. Once the facts are out there, and assuming in good faith that the other person has those facts, what are you really adding?

I just see posts like 'fuck outta here' and 'get lost' etc and I think about the spike in blood pressure, and anger that that person probably felt (because I have been one of those people) and how in the end it's just pointless to anyone and anything except the spike in your own emotions.

This place is good for situations in which it's new, or nuanced, or all the facts aren't out there yet and we're learning about them together, but I refuse to engage in discussions or even just emotive outbursts, especially targeted against people who obviously aren't going to be impacted by what I have to say.

In a more personal face to face setting, sure, I'd go off on someone who expressed a shitty opinion, but on the internet, anonymous, I just don't see it being valuable for anyone.

 

You really really do not need to be nice to the pedo supporters.

 

Who said that

 

it does seem like it's a brand new specific thing! no one's here trying to roundabout defend sean combs or jonny craig

 

You do not and nowhere do I believe that I suggested that? I just don't see the point of people being staunch on both sides and going back and forth forever.

The point of this thread (to me) should be raising awareness of new issues, and discussions around situations with nuance and / or misinformation. Not endless pages of 'fuck you pedo supporter' and 'but my youthhhhh, he apologized'. No one is ever going to say 'oh I didn't know he was a pedo, tickets returned' or 'oh, my bad - he means a lot to you, go ahead and rock on'.

At the end of the day, if it personally makes you feel better to jump in on everyone who has an alternate opinion on a 'cancelled' celebrity, then more power to you. To me, it just makes me feel worse and it's not where I want my limited energy to go. If that's what this thread becomes, I'll check in less often.

 

“alternate opinion on a cancelled celebrity” is a hell of a way to say pedo. the dude that came in asking where he can celebrate them touring should be told to fuck off. Sorry not sorry.

 

it for sure got obnoxious in here yesterday and some of the posts definitely went too far

 

Cancelled in quotes because he's back again so what does it even mean to be cancelled if you're in arenas again? and it's not like this doesn't happen quite frequently with lots of instances. Unless it's the worst of the worst, we often get derailed with discussions around people still supporting someone who clearly shouldn't be supported by the majority. If you don't see that it's an unproductive circle to go back and forth in that regard then whatever.

 

There's plenty of bands people jump through hoops to defend. TSSF, Fireworks, Front Bottoms etc. etc.

 

It’s that pop punk mentality