Accountability in Music • Page 977

Who mods the moderators?

Who guards the guardians?

Who patrols the paw patrol?

 

I'm Jesse Atticus!

 

IM Jesse Atticus!

 

I’m not sure what you mean with the last paragraph. I had a feeling my post would be misconstrued as being on the side of that user and others who act like pariahs even though they’re not victims here. I’m not on their side.


I’ll try rephrasing what I meant.


I think it’s the language being… so violent that gets me sometimes?


Granted, it’s hard for me not to project my own feelings onto you guys due to my own triggers etc but it’s all the “Grow up” the “shut up” and other expressions. At some moment I feel like the main points get lost and what remains, deep down in my gut, is the hostility.

For real, I got super anxious reading these last few pages, not only because of the minimizing and victim blaming from BN’s fanbase’s side, for sure that’s awful, and honestly… no the solution shouldn’t be to simply scroll or ignore the thread. I wish these discussions would be handled in another way then… maybe in a more sensitive manner?

I understand it has to come both ways, and that in Brand New’s case, some of their fans do come in here expecting to be coddled or that one of us says “yes honey you’re not only allowed to listen to them but to support their comeback x”. These fans are delusional as fuck and I get that it means you guys will come at them very strongly. It’s infuriating explaining our stance about BN’s return over and over again to peeps who more often than not don’t get it or aren’t ready to hear it, even after 8 freaking years.


But do these discussions have to get this far? I mean, couldn’t the offenders be dealt with quicker? Put on time out, the thread temporarily locked, I don’t know… Something more radical before like the 15th user confronting them gets heated, gets their own little jab at them, and it ends up like *gestures at everything*? That’s what I mean by de-escalating or by putting a stop at this at a better (= earlier) time.


I don’t think it’s a such a wild observation on my end. I’d love to hear what anyone else with a similar POV thinks because from now on, I’m debating between unfollowing this thread forever or to just suck it up (if I have to harshly talk like some of you do, even though we’re on the same side here).


The problem with the former being that I do want to remain informed on the acts discussed here, so… what should I do? Outside of the Popjustice forum, which doesn’t deal with our scene anyway, I don’t trust any other online places.


If this thread is a taste of what’s to come, considering Brand New are going to be active for the foreseeable future, to the point it takes up space in this thread that could be saved to inform about other acts and discuss what they’ve done, then I don’t think it’s worth it for me to come in here and get myself triggered over and over again. At this point in my life, I don’t think I have the “spoons” for this.


I’m rambling at this point and I’m sorry for not being clear enough. All this is also making me realize I wouldn’t last long as a mod or that I’d be hated because I don’t have the patience you guys have.

 

Thank you for sharing! You told me to eat shit - I'm kindly asking you to send.

 

that is correct - why would it be? if you can legitimately explain why someone should be able to come into the *accountability in music* thread and ask if there's a space that they can be excited about the return of a band *whose lead singer is accused of sexual crimes against a minor* please DM me because I would love to hear it.

that user was looking for a fight and was not posting "in good faith"

look this is one of the dumbest and most dramatic things anyone's ever posted here - log off

again, sooooooooo dramatic, but let me clear here - I don't speak for any other user or moderator on this website. I have almost zero discussions with other moderators about moderating. i'm certainly the most active moderator here, probably aside from jason himself, because i'm here/online pretty much all the time (which is another thing that we dont need to get into!!)

and that ties into what I said about noticing who is liking these pro-BN comments. i'm here a lot. I have a great memory. I notice this stuff. it's typically users that only post in the news threads or tour threads. it isn't malicious. i'm not keeping lists

but as my own post above this says, I think it's a good idea for me, a moderator, to notice who is pro-pedophile and respond accordingly!

 

I have to at least agree that life is too short to be spending this much energy on people that aren't worth our time, but some people do live for the hunt, so to speak.

 

@Crisp X I generally agree with what you're getting at. I absolutely was hot tempered yesterday. as I said here on Monday, there's nothing I can do about BN themselves being back, but I don't think we should tolerate people being weirdos at best/pedophile apologists at worst here.

this is a relatively small community, and I think it's generally a good community, and I enjoy being a pretty big part of it.

as jason put in the forum rules,

"Having an account on this forum is a privilege. It is not a right. There are plenty of platforms all over the internet that are free-for-alls with no rules or moderation. Let me be very clear: this is not one of those. This forum was created to be the community arm of chorus.fm and is a privately run entity."

I don't like the idea of banning people entirely, but I think they should understand that what they're saying/doing isn't welcome here. If they're going to act a certain way, they should expect a certain kind of response, IMO. Ignorance/naivety isn't an excuse.

with that said, moving forward I'll try and keep things from getting too out of hand. I encourage people to use the report feature if you have legitimate (not trolling!) concerns with the way users are talking to each other

 

I don’t have the energy at the moment to fully respond but I agree with all of this and while I do not agree with how some things were handled, and I think plenty of the users on the right side of this did in fact play a considerable role in turning this thread into an even bigger unproductive shit show, I am deferring to the mod(s) who clearly have more mental capacity to deal with this specific thread than I currently do. I’m honestly just bummed out and pretty exhausted and don’t have it in me to butt heads with users or mods who, again, are on the right side of this.

 

Oh my god, this got me. My therapist recently introduced the "spoons" metaphor to me and I thought it was so ridiculous at first, and yet I haven't stopped thinking about it since.

I know you asked for others to chime in here, and I don't know if this is what you're looking for but I'm just going to throw some shit at the wall here that I've been trying to formulate anyway. I too felt really anxious coming in here the last couple days - I've only been able to skim the last 5-6 pages. I'm not trying to pile on to any of this necessarily, but to echo some of what Crisp X said, I was told to "grow a spine" yesterday, in response to something that was completely misinterpreted. I know I'm not SUPER active in here, but I do like to contribute and when I do post, it's pretty clear how condemning I am of Brand New and how disgusted I am that they're back. Jesse did an unforgivable thing, posted a non-apology, pissed off for a few years and then just decides to come back while his cowardly band members never said a word. Not to mention the whole turning off comments thing. Alas. I posted something yesterday about how I wasn't "mentally prepared" to get a text from a friend inviting me to go see them -- something I quickly declined with clear reason -- with the context being that it never occurred to me that there were people in my orbit that would be excited about such a return. My sounding board for this stuff is this thread and a couple group chats of likeminded people. I naively thought everyone I knew was on the same page. THAT was my point. Not that I was afraid of how to respond, which is apparently what led to me being called spineless.

What I'm trying to say is, there are people like that Jesse guy (what an interesting name) that deserve to be held to the fire; I am extremely tired of smug people not answering basic fucking questions in this MAGA-fied world. This is not about those people, and I think it's pretty easy to identify which are which. This is about folks who, if you take a second to actually read/understand what they're saying, don't deserve the vitriol, which is the category I feel like I fell into yesterday.

Josh, while I was typing this I just saw your latest post about how you were hot tempered yesterday which is completely understandable -- it's safe to say a lot of us are running a little hot given the circumstances. Let's just make sure we're not attacking our own team.

 

yeah, what I said to you was me overreacting. I think a lot of people have trouble confronting their own friends and family's feelings and that's frustrating. But i'm sorry for saying that to you.

 

The photo of the victim with Jesse has been seared into my brain since I saw it yesterday. I must have missed it when it was originally posted. I don’t feel comfortable sharing it but it really does make me feel somehow even more disgusted with those who insist on downplaying what he did.

 

i thought everything happened when he was like 24/25. which is still awful. but 29? with a 16 year old? that makes me feel physically ill.

 

Same, for some reason I had it in my head that he was 22. Not like that would make it remotely okay, but 29 really is so much worse.

 

Did anyone listen to the Jonny Craig interview on Pure Pleasure this week?

I'm about half way through and it is refreshing to hear him being so open about his mistakes.

I've heard him say he's clean a hundred times over the years so I don't know if I believe that but just from hearing about the addiction and his kid and everything else, I thought it was interesting so far and I look forward to listening to the rest of it.
(yes, they talk about macbooks)

 

i work with kids, particularly girls, for a living, and it just feels so gross whenever i think about it for more than a few seconds. all i can say is i really truly hope he got his shit together for the sake of his daughter.

 

Ah, I forgot just how many allegations there are. There was in fact one where Jesse, 24, solicited nudes from a 15 year old.

 

anyways go to this tour instead, both bands were definitely an influence on bn and are much better anyways

 

I think one thing that might help this thread is for it's purpose to be better defined

 

I hadn’t seen the photos of him with one of the victims until just now. (Also, she wasn’t one of the two who went on the record, so idk how the fans are gonna “explain” that away.)

But this would’ve been from the 2007 tour. And yes, Jesse would’ve been 29. I had tickets to see the tour in Atlanta but my friend who was gonna drive us bailed the day before. And I was soooo upset about it. But now looking back, it was probably for the best. I was 18 back then (but super sheltered) and was enamored with Jesse and would’ve died to just have the chance to talk to him. I would’ve been an easy mark. So if I was in the position of any of these girls I probably wouldn’t have realized how inappropriate a relationship like that could be. (And even though it wouldn’t be illegal, the power differential there is enough to make it gross.)

I guess I’m making this about myself, but I feel deep empathy for these women. And the fact that there are still people who have more sympathy for the abuser here is disgusting.

 

This has been done to death as well, hasn't it? And I think the conclusion reached by most people is that this thread is meant as a place to both inform and come to terms with people doing things for which they should be held accountable, because it's impossible for us as a unit to actually hold anyone accountable in a realistic way.

 

That's fine but that's not reflected at all in the last 10 pages

 

Gotta love a trilogy

 

Honestly, I just look at this thread as a place to be informed. I'm not looking for anyone to make any decisions for me, and I'm not here to argue with anyone who continues to support an artist that I don't. I can't keep up (or often don't really try to besides here) with the latest personal news of bands I'm into, so it's a good place to pop in, read, and make sure that the art I'm continuing to support aligns with my personal standards. I'm sure I have blind spots for artists I love, and different lines that I draw from others. I also know for sure that a lot of allegations don't make it into mainstream sources, so without this place, I wouldn't know.

Basically - report more / read more, comment less / argue less, should be the way this thread is.