Accountability in Music • Page 914

it's because @JoshIsMediocre became mod and he sort of let us loose all over the place, no place is safe

 

ruh roh

Sean 'Diddy' Combs Accused of Assaulting Male Musician in New Lawsuit

 

I find it interesting that all the people that say they believe in restorative justice for these types of crimes and believe Jesse has done the work and that Brand New should be allowed to return are also people who never stopped listening to Brand New in the first place. No one that has Brand New as their number one artist in their spotify wrapped stopped listening to them after the allegations came out. They couldn't even be bothered to listen to the band in a manner that they wouldn't monetarily profit from. While I want to take what they're saying as serious meaningful discussion, at the end of the day, I can't shake the feeling it's really just about them wanting their favorite band back and wanting to not be seen as bad or problematic people for it and making whatever excuses they think will make me stop noticing their cognitive dissonance.

I don't like the precedence it sets if Brand New is allowed to come back and we all pretend everything is fine because "Jesse did the work". Having a platform is a privilege. I don't believe it's wise to give anyone that second chance when they've already proven they can't be trusted with that kind of power, especially people that are incredibly charming and manipulative. I don't like the idea of telling other predators that if they get caught, they can just "do the work" too and then get their careers back. this forgiveness feels incredibly dangerous, especially now as women are losing their rights in real time.

 

people like to throw around the phrase "doing the work" to vouch for restorative justice for their faves as if a) it's a one-time penance for individual wrongdoing and not a complete transformation of self and the world around you to ensure that said wrongdoing can never occur again, and b) they're the ones - and not the affected person(s)/communities - that can determine that the work has been/is continually being done and that the wrongdoer can be granted the privilege of an audience again.

 

You know what work I would like to be done? One fucking coward from that band speaking up about the treatment of the victims, whether they want to consider them alleged or not. It was gross and they just slunk into the shadows and have never said shit. Jesse isn’t the only one that needs to do some work.

 

I agree. The best time would have been when the news broke but anything at all would be a genuine surprise.

 

they unfortunately took the easy way out, because no matter which option they chose, they're still complicit in letting it - and any harassment of those that came forward - happen. if any of them did the right thing, the band wouldn't seemingly be planning a reunion, Jesse would probably be in prison (depending on the statute of limitations), and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

this is completely accurate

 

It's 100% about people wanting their favorite band back.

I am all for people learning from the harm they have caused and atoning for it as long as warranted by the victims. Take Pinegrove for example - I don't love how that played out but the victims ultimately got what they wanted and that's what matters. That obvioulsy didn't happen here with Brand New. They handled it in the second scummiest way - first would be filing defamation suits to cover asses like All Time Low - and now it's been long enough that people have forgotten.

I know what my vision of atoning looks like for Jesse but my vision doesn't matter. My disgust at the excitement this will cause is what matters. This will ultimately cause more harm and burden for victims of other people as it will further diminsh their voices and experiences. I will not participate in this and will remind everyone just how awful this will be.

 

I read that piece from the post you quoted and the author says JL did the work, but provides absolutely no evidence. There's a whole shitload of word salad and "hey, look at me, I seem reasonable and I spent time thinking and writing about this" but the conclusion basically boils down to "for the past 7 years JL has apparently done nothing and, in a way, isn't that actually doing something?" It's a self-serving hand wave to justify their own continued fandom and try not to feel guilty about it.

Dude couldn't even be bothered to not be an absolute coward and at least come out and tell his fans to stop harassing the women who survived his abuse, and we're supposed to agree he should have back the same platform, if not an elevated platform, that gave him the power and access to abuse those girls in the first place?

 

I've said this before, I believe - I would have less of a problem with people still listening to Brand New if it meant they didn't get more money. That's just not the case anymore with the industry.

 

I don't begrudge anyone continuing to listen to one of their favorite bands and a band that was likely important in their life. Have at it. I've tried myself, but I can't get past the mental hurdle of what JL did and that's all I think about when listening to them. But, as @bradpetrik said, I don't agree with supporting them financially or even promoting them to others.

What I really can't abide, however, is people trying to faux-intellectually rationalize it, especially when they inevitably come with the air of "actually aren't I the truly enlightened one giving a second chance to the wayward sinner?"

 

I still have some Brand New vinyl I need to sell. I might just drop it off at the local store to be done with it.

 

this 100%. it's self-serving to center any standard of accountability that isn't the survivors', and fans just don't like the fact that for some of those survivors, accountability looks like the band going away forever.

 

I don't really care about the faux-intellectual rationalism because I feel like faux-intellectualism is just all over the place so I'm okay with it as long as the person also listens to others (but very often they don't). But yeah the fact of the matter is that we've seen nothing tangible to suggest there's actually been improvement. It's not like he's been sitting to marinate in social justice for these years and now it's all been absorbed into his skin, we have no idea because we've seen nothing.

 

Yeah this is me with Saves The Day right now. Chris is sober and is singing probably his best in a long, long time, but I can't bring myself to go to one of their shows because I don't want to support him after what he did. Granted, he openly admitted to everything and didn't try to hide and one of the victims said they just want closure and peace and not to cancel him, but still.

 

End of the day it isn't about me though, I'm just a guy with an opinion that I would not like to see them come back and it's not gonna stop them. There are victims who have said they are okay with BN coming back, and I imagine there are victims who are not okay with it

 

I have mine too. It's packed away separate from the rest of my vinyl and I haven't decided what to do with it. Part of my impetus for starting a vinyl collection was to have something to show and share with my kids when they're older so we can experience the music that meant a lot to me together, and I haven't decided whether I can allow BN to be a part of that.

 

I have not listened to BN since all the stuff went down, nor have I really thought about Jesse Lacey at all, and my life has been just fine. I know it's not that simple for everyone.

 

I feel like the guy from Sorority Noise had it right. He got accused of assault, (if what he said is to be believed) communicated with the victim and had a statement cleared by her, then stopped music altogether and does restorative work now.

 

The "separate the art from the artist" people also often treat that as if it's a thing that just happens by some miracle of the universe and not work that needs to be done. It's a process that requires actually recognizing and grappling with what the artist did.

For someone like JL, that separation is not (currently) possible for me given that he used the power and platform granted to him by that art to abuse those girls.

 

i'm just glad that there's a fairly substantive digital record of the allegations to begin with. because when the band eventually wipes their social media to announce their return (including their Facebook, the only channel of theirs where Jesse's "sex addiction" reframing statement resides), they're gonna try to play it off as if nothing happened or as if accountability took place privately. Noah Gundersen attempted the same thing and mostly got away with it because he has a much smaller audience. i don't think the same can be said for BN.

 

I had no idea that's what he did. That's awesome.

I hate separating the art from the artist as an argument. We all do it at some point but at what point does one actually decide the art is the artist? For me, that's always.

 

I mean there's still tons of people who support Chris Brown, David Bowie, Steven Tyler, Kanye and on and on and on

People will never stop fully supporting. You just have to do what you can and do what you think is right.