Accountability in Music • Page 85

Just wanted to sound this out, I work as a guitar teacher and with that I occasionally have students ask me to teach them a song by someone problematic. Case in point this week I had an 11 year old girl ask me to show her the chords to that Chris Brown Freaky Friday thing. I just never know the right approach to this kind of thing. I decided to show her how to play it coz she's already listening to the song, but I felt I couldn't do it without mentioning that he has a troubling background. In this case she was already aware and had a pretty mature view so I think we handled it well but does anybody have any other thoughts on this? Did I do enough? Or is it too much of a burden on young kids to try and bring an awareness to their listening?

 

I think making it known that half the community feels attacked or doesn’t feel safe even though we all agree that supporting abuse is bad and accountability for those who do wrong is good, is a good thing. People say they are just trying to educate.. well educate better. Use PM’s, use less harsh language etc. especially when it’s pertaining to long members of the community who deserve the benefit. We are on the same team, we don’t need a competition in wokeness.

 

I mean I went through the 30STM thread and posted my thoughts on that. I'm unsure where the other stuff is happening

 

I can relate heavily to this, I think you handled the situation really well. I think at the age of 11 it really isn't appropriate for you to do much more than what you did. The only other thing that maybe I would do is talk to the parent before teaching the song too and make sure that they are okay with it as well. This way you are protected if the parent has a problem with the song/artist.

 

I mean it’s been happening pretty much everywhere. Enough that people have reached out to Jason about it. And a few long time members of the community have left. There has definitely been a hostility problem when there doesn’t need to be. We all agree on the basics, how about we just start from there and hen have a discussion instead of the other way around? I don’t know. I just want this community on this website to thrive. I want this to continue to be a safe place where we can all discuss stuff together, i don’t want it to be a negative, hostile environment. I think we can all agree on that.

 

see, part of what confuses me is that most of the time i only see people get harsh when there is victim blaming or someone trying to distract from the allegations. there's generally a reason why things get heated, it's not just someone (not in all cases of course) deciding to target people

 

You literally targeted @Colin Your Enthusiasm yesterday

 

I've noticed a significant shift in tone in a LOT of threads across all forums on this website over the past five to six months. Not even just dealing with accountability stuff (although, that's where it started to get more hostile/argumentative/judgmental). I feel like a lot of conversations - even if not that serious of a subject as accountability - have taken a more argumentative & combative approach and people are either all the way on one side, or all the way on the other side and no room for meeting in the middle or willing to try. I totally see the gang-up mentality too in a lot of threads.

I haven't posted much on the topic since the Science Fiction thread closed but I think that's where I started noticing the shift in tone between conversations and like, real arguments where it was getting ugly and the gang-up attitude. It's off putting and it seems to have made its way into a lot of threads on the site.

 

Sometimes sure. But even then, i think instead of getting harsh it would be more effective to try and communicate the issues with victim blaming, how they are victim blaming and how to avoid it in the future, and do it calmly. If at that point the person is still unwilling to change.... by all means be harsh.

But even still I’ve seen plenty of people be attacked, people who are good members who we all know who are against abuse get dragged through the mud for no reason. Like @bachna84 said.. you did it to @Colin Your Enthusiasm yesterday.

 

well, when i thought it was him was because it truly sounded like him, and he already fled the thread once when i asked why he continued to only pop up in here when it felt like it was invading his forum experience.

i did exactly what i said in my thread. when it feels like people are victim blaming or trying to avoid having these conversations is when i will step in

 

People just need to understand that they shouldn't take it personally when an artist gets called out for being an abuser or a harasser or whatever the case may be. People don't just make things up, at least not that I've seen, so if I or anyone else is calling out someone like Moose Blood or whoever just know that there is a reason for it and the call-out is directed to them specifically. Don't know what else to say, I'm not going to stop doing that and to be frank I don't care how it makes the people who like those artists feel. I just don't, honestly. So if it makes people uncomfortable or makes anyone "feel bad" well the Block button is your friend.

 

I’ve noticed it too and something needs to change. We need to stop looking at ourselves as educators and start all looking inward as learners, because none of us have the answer to all of this (in regards to accountability in music).

 

yes.

 

But i think there is a much better way to “step in” nobody on this site is perfect. I think some people think they are, or at least think the way they consume art is perfect. But honestly, all of us are just trying to be better. Let’s help each other in a civil way. If someone makes t clear after several attempts that they don’t want to be better THEN go ahead and be harsh. But I think people deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

i truly do understand that. it's just incredibly frustrating when a conversation is happening and people ask to get back to the music or say this conversation isn't necessary in this thread. i am not someone who goes into neck deep threads and shames people for listening to the band. but i will absolutely call someone else if they say this is unimportant to know.

 

Hurt feelings aren’t coming from favorite bands being called out. Hurt feelings are coming from personal attacks and pitchfork mentalities in the forums.


We all want abusers to be held accountable. Yeah it sucks when it’s your favorite band, but every regular member of this site will agree that accountability >>>> personal attachment

 

Casey again I don't think this is the thread to do shit like this

 

yeah, that wasn't necessary, sorry. i just feel the same thing is happening again. it feels a whole lot of "leave us alone in peace with our artists we don't want to see you talk about them"

 

Who has said this? The alt account? Nobody currently trying to have a discussion is saying anything close to this.

 

Just wanna mention that this user (Colin) was formally known as Dejamoi and changed his username to something non-Brand new related as a public acknowledgement of Jesse Lacey being an abuser and not supporting it... I think he is more than willing for people to talk about abuse and call it out. Just apologize for accusing him so we can all move on man.

 

i deleted the original post saying the alt account was him earlier this morning

 

I agree it can be frustrating. Sometimes people don’t neccesarily know that they are adding to the problem by trying to “just talk about the music” in those situations i think a nice pm to explain the issues with that would work better than giving into the frustration and lashing out.

 

Listen, I've had plenty of personal attacks directed at me for doing things as innocuous as, for example, trying to prevent a rehash of the 30STM debate in the A1 thread. I was accused of doing so "for my ego" and told to "fuck off" (not by the same person) for that. So I know all about personal attacks on this site. I'm not talking about personal attacks though, I'm talking about people being shouted down for trying to keep awareness of problematic artists in the general consciousness.

 

I certainly have been very abrasive in the past in terms of chasing people around threads and calling them out on their problematic behavior in a way that was completely harmful and offensive and solved nothing. I regret doing a lot of what I did, it came from anger and my own ignorance. Sometimes I still think about how poorly I treated some people on AP and how I probably just exacerbated the problem rather than trying to help. It's a learning experience. It takes maturity.

At the same time, that does not mean that topics should be danced around or handled with kid gloves. It angers me that so many people were allowed to slip through the cracks due to a lack of conversation or people refusing to acknowledge problematic behavior. We can do better.

 

well said