Accountability in Music • Page 72

other music exists you know

 

So can we assume that Evan was seeking therapy for his actions before it became public knowledge? That makes it seem... more genuine?

 

doesn't mean it's necessarily about his actions, could just be for other things

i don't think we should assume what he was in therapy for though

 

His totally inappropriate, self-serving, narrative control-stealing statement now appears to not be something he wrote with a clear head and of his own volition. We don't know now how much of that was from him directly and how much was due to the manipulation that was being directed toward him. The underlying abusive actions (whatever they were, as far as I know we still don't know what he did) still happened, however, and nothing can change that. He still has to be held accountable for what he did.

 

Yeah, I didn't like using the word assume. Also as soon as I said that I felt weird for judging how genuine his reasons were for going to therapy. I feel like there is way too much murky water for us to really have too much to say about this.

 

ahhhh i always love when people come in and explain the things i am saying but far, far, better.

yes yes yes yes yes this exactly

 

Wasn't my intention! I know what you meant and agree with you.

 

nah i like when people come and clear up my points because i definitely do not have the best, most succinct way with words

 

So what does rehabilitation look like in this situation, and is it possible to obtain? The victim doesn’t seem to be against the band one day touring again, right? So does that mean that at some point they could be welcomed back into safe spaces? I don’t know the answer to this and to me it seems way less black and white than other situations we’ve seen.

 

I find this point silly. This person obviously feels connected to Pinegrove's music and pointing out other artists exist doesn't mean anything when it comes to their connection to the stated artist. It doesn't mean they no longer feel hurt or betrayed by what happened, and it doesn't mean they now magically hate Evan's old music.

Edit: I don't feel like I explained this very succinctly but yeah.

 

there should be no assumption or thought about this point until we see how he responds and comes back into the public sphere. trying to think of scenarios to "welcome him back in" is worthless and a waste of time as that seems to be biased towards the abuser as opposed to the victim. just wait it out and make judgment once we see what happens

 

That's not my point. My point is that there's no reason to be focused on whether or not you should be excited for their new album at this stage and there's plenty of music coming out this year to fill that void. Pinegrove isn't the end all be all of music in their genre. Obviously people can still like them and like their old stuff but right now whether or not their album is gonna come out or if you can like it with a clear conscious isn't the question to ask. It just doesn't matter, find some new shit to fill your time and connect to, there's no shortage of music made by non abusers.

 

i don't think people should be TRYING to find reasons to listen to the bands that they find connection to. either do it, or not, but if you're trying to find reasons for it you are basically just looking for ways to excuse abuse

 

I guess that's why I'm having trouble with this. I have found myself skipping Pinegrove tracks when they come on in shuffle (brand new & IIOI too) but it doesn't seem as black and white as those other recent situations..

 

Exactly, and if you're doing that imo it's time to find other artists to latch onto

 

It'd probably be easier to get a clearer picture on this pinegrove situation if the victim had a voice in any of this but thanks to PT and Evan's statement the victim has been effectively silenced. Another reason why I think people accused of shit should just shut up is that their statements almost always end up silencing and taking away from victims

 

I mean, he admitted abuse occurred. That happened. Just because we don't know what it is doesn't mean he didn't do whatever he did.

But you don't have to justify to me or anyone else what you listen to in private. Coming on here and asking us if you have our permission to be excited about new music from an admitted abuser, though, is outside the realm of things like "separating the art from the artist." You can't publicly support an abusive artist's art without publicly supporting the abusive artist themselves. The idea that you can do one without the other is a fiction, it's just not possible. If Pinegrove's music means that much to you, you have to make the decision regarding whether you can stomach listening to it on your own. But once you cross that line into public sympathy/support, it's an entirely different conversation. Which is why you got the responses you did to your original post.

 

Just to clarify I wasn't asking anyone's permission. Was just looking for clarification on what additional info came out regarding the situation in the last day or so. Thanks everyone.

 

The answer there is nothing has come out publicly (to my knowledge, someone please correct me if I'm wrong) since Evan's statement regarding what he actually did. The PunkTalks stuff is in reference to how he was likely manipulated into writing a gross statement that made everything worse.

 

Didn't he defend his manager or old manager who was accused of sexual assault

 

that post above isnt formatting correctly and i tried to fix it, whatever.

 

He harassed a victim who came forward with allegations about his manager.

https://trackrecord.net/into-it-over-it-former-hellogoodbye-manager-accused-1820979526

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/trackr...r-hellogoodbye-manager-accused-1820979526/amp

 

He knew his manager had committed abuse and he silenced the victim when they confronted him about it.