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Accountability in Music • Page 488

Discussion in 'Music Forum' started by OhTheWater, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. at this rate you have to ask yourself what is the fucking point of striving for accountability when it looks like there is none to be found? it's exhausting.
     
  2. mgiannotti

    edge mike Supporter

    That sucks, but seeing Busy Philipps, Corey Purvis, and Sunrise Movement all involved in this makes it so much worse, i love all of them. Damn shame, feels hopeless.
     
  3. Anthony_

    A (Cancelled) Dork Prestigious

    To be fair, just because they're donating the proceeds to the Sunrise Movement doesn't necessarily mean they're "involved"
     
  4. BoldTitan Dec 3, 2020
    (Last edited: Dec 3, 2020)
    BoldTitan

    Trusted

    The way he writes is so annoying, but I do still think this is one of those gray areas (fake counselor, mediation, cheating on boyfriend, therapy, the admittance of coercion?, etc.) that this site keeps going back and forth on. Definitely a much different situation than Brand New. Otherwise, you sort of have to accept a lot of the people you love and support being "abuse enablers" like Phoebe and Half Waif, who are infinitely closer to the situation than someone on a forum that saw a vague subtweet who heard from a friend. I'm sure he's a weird probably kind of shitty dude and I'm not a fan, but I do worry about lumping him in with the others.

    On the Brand New side, I think them mounting any comeback is incredibly shortsighted and do not at all support that. Jesse needs to never be in the public eye again like that. Though I do think friends he has had through the decades being supportive of his rehabilitation and turning into a better person for the future could be helpful.
     
  5. Philll

    Trusted

    I dont think the grey is all that grey with ESH tbh, but all that aside, I think it becomes quite simple when you consider he abused a position of power, he therefore no longer has a right to that position.

    If you think that "someone on a forum that saw a vague subtlest who heard from a friend" is unreliable as a source, how much more reliable is your source that he has gone through necessary works of accountability, in all honesty?
     
    phaynes12 likes this.
  6. BoldTitan

    Trusted


    I'd say multiple publications that interviewed parties involved, multiple well-known artists who stand against abuse and support women that remain by his side are worth more than my or someone else's third party opinion.

    My personal opinion is that he's a weird creepy dude. Does my opinion matter? Nope. So that's why I try to go off multiple accounts and sources of people and reporters closer to the situation. Just think having zero spectrum of these cases and treating everything as binary is a slippery slope. But I fully understand others have a different opinion.
     
    stars143 likes this.
  7. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I think that the well known artists that stand with him are shitty for doing it. I haven't been as into Phoebe mainly because of her support for them. It sucks and he sucks and there are, on record, more people who felt victimized by him. I don't know why you'd feel the need to "worry" about lumping him in with abusers - he is an abuser.

    Why not question the G Herbo fraud tweet getting lumped in with abusers too?
     
  8. BoldTitan

    Trusted

    Because nobody is calling him an abuser, this is an accountability in music thread. Probably holding him accountable for fraud.
     
    stars143 likes this.
  9. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    Like, the "Otherwise" there doesn't work, haha. I've resigned myself to the fact that his friends will stay his friends. Just like people are still friends with a multitude of other abusers in the scene.
     
    Aregala and Philll like this.
  10. Philll

    Trusted

    For the record I dont think what ESH did is on the same level as Jesse Lacey. I still think he's shitty and has lost the right to a public platform. You're putting words in my mouth if you think I'm conflating the two.
     
    Anna Acosta likes this.
  11. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I'd say the dude from Pinegrove who on record abused someone (and on record from the survivor didn't make amends and lied about it and all the other stuff we know) fits in this thread way more than someone who committed fraud, but that's just me I guess.
     
    Aregala likes this.
  12. BoldTitan

    Trusted

    Didn't state that you personally, @Philll were conflating. Apologies if it came off as such. Just think there are multiple levels of offenses on a wide spectrum and imo based off what I've gleaned from the situation based on the accounts of reporters and those closely involved, it didn't seem to warrant being treated in the same vein as many other abuses. That in some of the more minor cases, there should be paths towards reconciliation and healing. For ESH, possibly being able to still create music, for Jesse, being a member of society, but not having that platform anymore.
     
  13. BoldTitan

    Trusted

    If you can point me to where the survivor on record stated he lied about it and didn't make amends I will fully retract everything and support him not having a platform anymore. I hadn't heard there was anything from them on record.
     
  14. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    We've had this convo so many times at this point that I don't know if it's worth repeating but:
    Draw your own lines in terms of if you wanna listen to them or support them or whatever. If you think everything is good based off of the shitty P4k revival article then do you. Just know that there are multiple other sources, some from the actual survivor and some from people who were in contact with other survivors, who say that things aren't as clear as that article made it out to be.

    I just wanna make it clear that just because Half Waif or Phoebe still fuck with them does not mean that he is innocent/forgiven for what he did, and you should not use that as your litmus test for whether or not you should support an abuser.
     
  15. BoldTitan

    Trusted

    I'd love to see these as that would help clear up a lot.
     
  16. OhTheWater Dec 3, 2020
    (Last edited: Dec 3, 2020)
    OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

     
  17. BoldTitan

    Trusted

    Are one of those people the survivor? Or just someone's take.
     
  18. Anthony_

    A (Cancelled) Dork Prestigious

    Pretty sure this has all already been hashed out in the past with this specific user so the bad faith here is just staggering
     
  19. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I'm editing the post and updating as I scour through 2-3 year old posts, because for some reason you are asking me to prove to you that this true
     
    Aregala likes this.
  20. Anthony_

    A (Cancelled) Dork Prestigious

    This all sounds....so familiar...

     
  21. BoldTitan

    Trusted

    It's not bad faith. I just don't want certain situations getting lumped in with others, because that just, unfortunately, hurts and discredits legitimate cases. It's been the same circular argument and I've stated multiple times that I'm fully ready to side with you, but the only thing I ever get are third-party tweets. You then just stated there were sources from the actual victim, but then continue to just link people's twitter takes.

    I always try to be incredibly gracious and understanding with my language, as I just want to know what the hell happened. And there just seems to be a schism between those who believe Phoebe/Half waif/other artists and publications, and those that believe the couple other artists and tweets that claim otherwise.

    I'll just drop it, because it's never productive. I just was hoping to see things from the survivor to make it clear. I haven't purchased Pinegrove anything since the accusations, because I don't like supporting people I don't know are good people, but I also don't want there to just be one blanket category for these situations.
     
  22. Anthony_

    A (Cancelled) Dork Prestigious

    Seriously just shut the hell up. Like I'm so sick of this ridiculous obtuse bullshit. Stop coming into this thread just to troll and be a prick. We went through all of this with you last year, you're choosing not to listen, so just stop posting about it. If you want to listen to Pinegrove guilt-free, go ahead and do that on your own time in private, literally nobody is stopping you from doing so. I truly don't understand why you keep doing this.
     
  23. BoldTitan

    Trusted

    If I wanted to be a troll, I'd be bumping the Pinegrove thread excited about their stupid movie. I'm trying to see these sources from the survivor I've been asking for...for years. All I get is the same twitter takes and 4th hand accounts from leekrat, who was temporarily banned from this site for targetting people. I have to sugar coat every post I make because it only agrees with 98% of your views.
     
  24. Anthony_

    A (Cancelled) Dork Prestigious

    Keep telling on yourself, I promise you you're helping your case.
     
    Carrow likes this.
  25. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    Phoebe/Half Waif have never said anything on record regarding the situation, have they? Has anyone aside from Evan come to his defense?