Accountability in Music • Page 377

The worst is the people who you talk about the Jesse Lacey stuff with and they give that sad "yeah, I knowwwww" grimace/response but then still continue listening to them? Like, you're ok with supporting him despite knowing full well what he did and admitting it was really bad?

 

It should be reiterated that people can listen to problematic artists all they want during their own time. I'm not here to stop anyone from doing that, nor can I. However, just because someone likes to listen to a problematic artist during their personal time does not mean that they need to show public support and affection towards those artists. Somebody showing public support for a problematic artist, like Brand New, is a separate problem from them just listening to them on their own time.

 

Listening to them in private isn't necessarily "supporting" them. If they're out here praising and promoting them though that's different and definitely not good.

 

That’s not necessarily true. Most people consume music in a vacuum, and don’t always feel the need to know the artist intimately, even if they love them. A few of my coworkers in their early 30s love brand new, and were completely shocked when I told them what happened, because they don’t keep up with whatever bands are doing outside of music.

Because these people associate the brand new situation with internet people yelling at them for listening to the band, and not the actual things that happened

 

I have never seen a single person “yell” at a brand new fan without adding the context of Jesse being a child predator soooo the second half of your post seems incredibly inaccurate to me.

the sad truth is that tons of BN fans literally do not care because they think it’s fake or that Jesse did nothing wrong or that those girls “asked for it. That’s why they’re doubling down. Can we not excuse that With the mean internet straw man?

 

Imagine thinking getting yelled at on the internet excuses doubling down on publicly supporting a predator

 

I just wish he wasn’t a Tim Lambesis supporter.

 

Hobo Johnson was accused of sexual assault/rape a couple of years ago but the survivors statement was not made public. If you look back in this thread you can see the posts about it which were made in a Facebook group I am a member of. I am not sure if this incident below is the same but I'm inclined to believe they are different due to this being a few years later. The point is, not enough people know about the sexual assault/rape allegation because there was no public statement and the story came from a private group on Facebook. It's ultimately up to survivors how or when they want to tell their story but I hope Hobo Johnson receives consequences for his actions.

 

I’ve definitely seen that and know people who took it that way, so calling that inaccurate is very weird to me! It’s not reserved to brand new, it’s the same with as I lay dying (even more so!) and it’s similar to how your president is able to do dumb shit every single day and have people back him because people care less about those actions, and more about the fact that they feel slighted when people call them out for supporting those people.

It’s not an excuse for supporting them and I think it’s intellectually dishonest to suggest that, but at some point repeating “but why do people still like brand new??” Without at least understanding why people do sounds really tedious and unnecessary.
FWIW I don’t even listen to BN and I had no problem “dropping them” after everything Jesse Lacey did cake to light, this isn’t me defending some band I have a big emotional connection to.

 

For real, I could not care less what someone who still publicly supports Brand New thinks of what anyone says about them online. If you still publicly support them your opinions and feelings on the matter don’t really mean anything to me.

It’s not about “why do people still like Brand New?”, because people have their reasons and those reasons are personal and not anyone else’s business, it’s about “why do people still feel the need to support them openly when that support can be harmful/triggering to survivors and just generally makes you seem like a person who completely lacks any empathy?”

Nobody cares if a person still listens to them but nobody wants to know about it either. It’s not hard to just listen to them in private and keep it to yourself, I promise it really isn’t.

 

While I wouldn't equate someone's entire level or ability to be empathetic based on their musical taste, I think the point is the same. This message board is one of the few places I have seen on the internet where mentions of BN or other abusers bring about such a strong reaction. If there is a strong need to celebrate their work, don't do it here

 

Hovvdy is touring with Pinegrove

 

I don't think it's fair to chastise them for it when it's been established before that most people outside of this forum do not know the full Pinegrove situation.

 

I don't think it's fair to chastise them for it when it's been established before that most people outside of this forum do not know the full Pinegrove situation.

 

I'm not "chastising" anyone

 

Fair. I didn't really know what other word to use, so sorry.

 

Yeah I'll preface this by saying I don't listen to Hovvdy, so I don't have any personal stake in this, but I truly don't know how to handle a situation like this where 99% of people think the situation was resolved to the satisfaction of the survivor. It's like The Menzingers taking Culture Abuse on tour, there's no way they knew about the (unfortunately) obscure tweets calling that band out, we only know because this site is crowd-sourced news and someone happened to come across the tweets and post them. It sucks but I guess the most we can do is try to pass along word to these artists and hope they see it/react appropriately.

 

Yeah I mean there's nothing to do but PM them and see if they'll respond. I'm not calling for a boycott or anything, lol. Just posting that a band that a lot of people on here, including myself, enjoy is touring with a problematic band. It sucks

 

Hovvdy toured with them back in the spring of 2017 too so I imagine they are fully aware of everything that went down.

 

Considering the fact that the information that is most pertinent has been isolated to this forum, I don’t know if this is a fair assessment.

Also, I think this all came out after spring 2017?

 

How do people feel about Half Waif then? She's married to the drummer of Pinegrove. I feel like a lot of the logic of calling out people by association to these things has missed her.

 

She defended him prior to the puff piece, didn’t she?

 

November 2017

 

The Evan stuff came out in the fall of 2017, and by that point a relationship between the two bands was definitely a thing. They had toured together and I think had some members fill in for each other on some shows, so I feel like they are most likely aware of the accusations.

 

Idk, I feel like the excuse that people don’t know the Pinegrove situation outside of this forum holds a little less weight after that recent New Yorker piece.

“Hall’s accuser wants to distance herself from the band’s comeback. “At the end of the year,” she says, “I felt like, The year is up, do what you’re going to do, and I don’t want any part of it.” “

Yes, the part about there being other unnamed survivors is not public knowledge. But after this most recent statement from the KNOWN survivor I’m not sure how you can argue that the two came to an understanding or there was any resolution there.