I've struggled with this. A lot. I'm gonna be real - I don't know how to respond to a lot of this. Because as much as I agree there has been a lot of toxic direct-to-anger speech in these threads from people who have a lot of privilege which I wish would change, I also don't see how to differentiate that from firm correctional speech from people like myself/tone policing based on what has been said here. I will die on the hill that if you give privileged people an out with the way you address a topic, they'll take it. If not doing that makes my approach toxic, then I don't belong here. And fine, maybe thats true. I'm sure there are survivors made uncomfortable by the discourse. I'm sorry for that, and they should be heard. But. There are also survivors made uncomfortable by what's happened in here for the past few pages, myself included. If the people I'm asked to consider when discussing these issues are first and foremost folks who need their hands held while they figure out how to deal with liking bands with abusers in them, I just have no interest. I have those same struggles. I'm not gonna name the bands because I don't need anyone to tell me it's oh-fucking-kay that those bands still matter to me. My struggle isn't as important as the people it might hurt. I agree that there should be a place for people to explore that grief - I'd even participate - but I'm not interested if the purpose is to tell people they shouldn't experience guilt regarding that. It isn't realistic. (And I don't care what people intended for us to be discussing here. This is the discourse I've seen that's actually HAPPENED. I also work 100x harder than I want to in order to give the benefit of the doubt and to be rational/non-emotional/explain things yet my posts still easily fall under the "toxic" parameters I've seen discussed here.) So, I guess my thesis here is I don't know. You can't please everyone. People learn when they're ready to. My tone won't change that. I am a very rational person who prioritizes what works over what feels good, every time. I'm not perfect, and I slip up. I also acknowledge nobody called me out here (edit 2: I'm saying this bc I got name-dropped more than once, however), but when we're dealing with emotional trauma we're no longer dealing with rationality. We're in the realm of feelings. And honestly this has just made me feel like nothing I do here actually matters. So if what I do is toxic and unwanted, it and I will go. I'll never stop doing this work. It's part of me. But I have my own mental health to consider and forgoing nuance in the other extreme doesn't help either - and with all due respect, that's a lot of what's happened here. There's a fine line between asking for multi-faceted conversations and tone-policing and most of y'all didn't find it, and nobody pays me to be here. Sincerely, Someone who was privy to both conversations. Edit; I'll check in next week. Idk what'll happen after that but I'm not gonna cut my nose off to spite my face. I'm too old for this.