Accountability in Music • Page 267

I’m talking in a mainstream context. Dude’s always done well in hip-hop/R&B radio and his albums have sold (even if he basically gamed the charts with that last album), but he hasn’t had a Top 40 hit in years.

 

Pretty sure he’s fine with it. He commented on that Bieber post that said Chris Brown is a legend with fire emojis or thumbs up.

 

how is he able to post on the Instagram of the woman he stalked

 

Dude is a whole ass psychopath

 

The glamorizations of dudes who are fucking crazy to women as "passionate" or "protective" is so fucking terrible.

 

Him and his band Aiden were verified on Twitter many, many years ago. This wasn't something that popped up suddenly.

Chris Brown's last Top 40 hit was "Undecided," which came out in January. Before that, it was "Pills & Automobiles" and "Privacy" in 2017.

 

Looks the The Orwells are trying to make a comeback:

 

Yikes

 

Damn. I know Chad and always thought of him as a good dude, but I guess you just never really know someone. Good on these guys for issuing a statement.

 

This isn’t exactly an accountability thing but I didn’t know where else to put it. I’m a Chance the Rapper fan (and from/living in Chicago) and I think it’s really cool what he and his foundation that he started do for the city. The Open Mike nights he does for high school students is super cool (I’ve never been but I’ve seen videos and I like the concept). To my point: It would be cool if more musicians who have a larger reach be more vocal/do more for their city. Obviously it’s up to the person themselves what they want to do with their platform, but even if bands or musicians did just 1% of the activism Chance does I think it would go a long way. Even just speaking out and taking action against something. I know plenty of bands/musicians do this but it would be nice to see way more do it too.

tl;dr - Despite what you think of him, it’s really inspiring to see Chance give back so much to Chicago and be an activist here and I wish more bands/musicians would do that.

 

This might get long or confusing, but looking for others opinions.

I've followed Andrea Lacey on IG for quite some time, so I've obviously seen her posts about Jesse, and I recently stumbled across some speculation that "Neighborhood" off III is about Jesse. It also seems that Andy and Kevin are still good friends with him.

So all of that to really ask, if he stays away from BN, do you think it's okay to listen? Is it okay to support him in any public form ever again? (both from a fan/friendship perspective, as I have some former friends that have been abusers and I always wonder my duty to support and help them) I'm trying to avoid any abuser apologist rhetoric here, but obviously these people haven't abandoned him (which I don't think they should have) for a reason.

thoughts? Is Kevin and crew supporting him privately the way most people should approach a situation like this?

 

That's a personal decision and one you have to answer for yourself. Nobody can make that one easier for you - what can you live with supporting?

And while I don't think privately abandoning your abuser friend is called for (after all, everyone needs a support system to have any hope at getting better), I will just offer the perspective as a survivor that I don't trust anyone who ever cared about me who knows what my abuser did and is still in his corner. Mine is fully unrepentant and unreformed, and still antagonizes me where he can; I have no idea if Jesse's friends are enabling him or encouraging him to hold himself accountable and seek help.

This is just my survivor's perspective. I wouldn't make the decision based on whether or not it's "okay" to do; I can't speak for Jesse's survivors, but I would just say there are some things for which it doesn't matter if they have a reason or not. Pain begets pain, and there's no cut and dry easy answer there.

Happy to answer any questions; I'm pretty scatterbrained today and am well aware I probably didn't word this that well.

edit: literally everyone who ever stuck by abusers did it "for a reason". It just seems dangerous to me to assume the reason is a good or healthy one just because you like the musician doing it. People are complicated and internal bias is too. I'm not saying assume the worst - I'm saying it's impossible to know and that's why for survivors it often doesn't matter "why".

 

You're actually the exact person I was looking for insight from. I've learned a lot from you. And dont apologize, I think I worded mine pretty poorly too. Basically listening to that song, and hearing it could be about that situation, got me to thinking about the one I am in.

Essentially one of my longest running friends got into heavy domestic abuse situation with the mother of his child. They split, I heard about it, and I ghosted him after that. Apparently he and the mother of his child are fine now and talking about dating again. My wife has occasionally said things to me like "I agree what he did was wrong, but he might just need the support and influence of someone like you." and I've just never really knew how to handle it and if I actually owe him anything.

 

Speaking solely for myself, a straight white guy who has never been assaulted, I think it's good everyone to have a support/accountability system and if they're supporting him in private, then that's their business. I think that I and many others are hung up on is a combination of the abuse and the effect he's had on his victims, as well as the fact that after its apology on social media, the band has made no effort to call off its hordes of fans from harassing and disparaging Jesse's victims. It's tough to take that apology as sincere when they've shown no effort to follow through on allowing for Jesse's victims to heal.

 

"That man has never once harmed me in any way
That man has always been thoughtful to me
But I just can't disagree with the neighborhood
I'm afraid they'll start talking 'bout me"

Not good.

 

That's a tough situation. Ultimately if the mother of his child is open to reconciling, that's a decent indication she'd be okay with others doing so as well. I don't know that I personally could be friends with someone who had done that, but again; that's the perspective of a survivor living with PTSD. I would simply never be able to trust him or feel safe around him. You may feel different, and that's okay.

With that said, I don't think you owe him anything. That isn't how it works. It's his work to heal and get better; not anyone else's. And hopefully he's done that work. And I don't think you did anything wrong by reacting the way that you did. Perhaps it wouldn't be the worst thing ever if you were ever able to let him know how you felt about his behavior/the reason you ghosted, but you are by no means compelled to "fix" him or anything like that.

There's a very, very fine line between "support and influence" and "apologism and enabling", and that's the line we're collectively as a society trying to learn how to walk. (At least, those of us who aren't unrepentantly terrible.)

Yes, this.

 

I'm not familiar with the song but jfc... what a terrible sentiment. Could've saved it except that last line kinda lays the intent bare.

 

Some awkward thoughts:

I've personally always found a difference between personal and public "support." Giving your 'support' to a friend that needs it in a way that includes accountability and being there, is something I totally understand. It could save a life. But when it becomes a public display of support the undermines, or even harms, the people that were originally hurt, I think that's something I have an issue with and find it hard to see.

When someone is a public figure I think this entire thing is even more pronounced for me. When a public figure (or even a regular person) offers support, publicly, for someone that did bad things I weigh that with what they have also done for the people hurt. Have they given their support in one way or another to that? Are they only backing up their friend?

I have tried not to think about Jesse or Brand New because it brings me to a super depressing mental space, but I was curious after the aforementioned post, and looked at Andrea's IG. Apparently I'm blocked, but via a private browser session saw the KD on the Father's Day post.

I'm too close to this situation because I talked to some of the people harmed when all of that went down (they reached out to me), and it bothers me to this day how much they were harassed online and that no one came to their defense in positions of power to do so. So I feel like any objectivity I have is out the window. I'm sad about what they went through. And I still have those words in my head when I think about this band at all.

I guess I just wish the public displays of support started with those harmed before moving on to the person doing the harming, while at the same time thinking accountability and moving forward are things friends can and should be there for others and that it is possible to love someone that did bad things.

I also wondered if that song had anything to do with that situation, or even if the "Neighborhood" was a reference to a website like this, when I first heard it. But I came down thinking it's more about the online conversation in general and not one specific person or thing, and because of KD and Andy's political stances in the past, I read into it the conservative twitter attacks, and in retrospective maybe that was naive? I dunno? Hard to read into anything these days for sure I guess.

 

And yeah, this says what I was trying to say better and in way less words.

That line is extremely hard to walk and feels like it's always on shaky ground. I have a hard time even trusting my own judgement at times.

 

"Neighborhood" has absolutely nothing to do with JL or this website.

 

Pure speculation, but to add to the conversation about "Neighborhood," the narrative that it's about Jesse seems to come from Brand New's Reddit, which consists of a lot of harassers of Jesse's victims and generally shitty stans. The general feeling seems to be that they hate Kevin Devine for speaking out against Jesse and I think them thinking that song is written about Jesse's victims or the online discourse is a way to absolve him and say "He was always for Jesse" and get him back in their good graces.

 

I'd venture a good guess that that motivated reasoning has played a large role in that speculation.

 

Probably so. Lots of mental gymnastics needed to turn a song about discrimination of a harmless flamboyant queer fellow into a defense of their favorite singer because Kevin still talks to Jesse from time to time.

 

Makes sense. I get what the lyrics are doing regarding mob mentality - in today's climate it's just very hard for me to know what to make of them and unfortunately artist intent is a big factor in that. (Again, not familiar with the song or rumors about where the inspiration came from. This is all based purely on this thread and reading the actual lyrics.)

 

See, that changes how I feel about it entirely. Framing and context are so important, thank you for the information.