Accountability in Music [ARCHIVED] • Page 1053

Definitely understand posts like the one above while also wanting to reiterate that regular posters know that @iCarly Rae Jepsen of all people definitely did not mean for their post to read the way it has to some folks. Not trying to minimize any emotions, just feel like anyone unfamiliar should know that Ian is a really valuable and well-intentioned poster on this site.

 

I know I don't post here often but am quite familiar with seeing iCarly around here and their reputation here. I don't say this to make them feel worse, but want to provide what went through my head readinf it. Having them say what they said, and others liking it saying they agree makes it hurt worse. I expect a level of transphobes and bigots on the topic and can handle that when it happens. When you see a trusted and respected member, someone you consider an ally or community member say something like that, it hurts so much more than some MAGA asshole screaming in a parking lot. You feel hurt, disappointed, and that maybe the safe space isn't as safe as you thought.

Yes, I know their reputation, I know they often stand up for and champion LGBT rights among with advocating for victims of any abuse, but something said that dismissively and that because someone has dysphoria you're not surprised they are abusive really makes you stop and think about if it's really a safe place. I don't say that as a way to lash out or hurt, but to show what it feels like coming from a respected member.

 

I am well aware that trans people, and LGBTQ people in general, are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators of violence and am truly sorry

 

i don’t post often, but i lurk regularly. i think it’s important to explicitly push back against posts like Ian’s because impact over intent. Without the additional labor from the trans folks in this thread, transphobes would potentially feel welcome/empowered, and ignorant folks would remain ignorant/misinformed.

please don’t center cis feelings over trans lives. please don’t shut down trans folks trying to add context to a well-intended but very poorly worded post.

also kinda bonkers that your and Ian’s posts got significantly way more ‘likes’ than any posts defending trans folks :/

disclaimer: i’ve read all the posts. not trying to make Ian feel worse. i know Ian has apologized.

 

Thanks for pushing past the gentle cues to drop the negative critiques to iCarly’s post and sharing these thoughts, both of you. And props to iCarly for apologizing, even after some folks tried to bail him out of feeling obligated to issue an apology. A lot of people would quietly accept the shelter of the bros having their back and not apologize or be as direct and sincere in their apology.

 

I promise that my intent was not to shut down any specific posters or to be a "bro'" and shield Ian from apologizing -- it is always a good thing to clarify when you misspeak, especially on a topic this heavy. I know this community (and thread) deeply and just hate to see folks on the same team misunderstand each other. I very much appreciate the non-cis folks posting their feelings and viewpoints in here and am happy to bow out of the conversation.

 

I Carly is a good one. Chill

 

uhhhhhh excuse me? telling trans people to chill (re: this topic) is… not ok.

 

One of the reasons why it's important to be clear when talking about this is that trans/non binary/ BIPOC have been told over and over "I'm not a racist/bigot/trans/homophobe" again and again by people, while those same people continue to do and say things that actively undermine their statement. Make no mistake, I am not saying that is the case for you Aaron, or for Ian at all, but the "trust me, that's not what I mean" defense has been told to people a million times and isn't one that often stands on its own legs.

Sometimes you just wish people could speak what they mean clearly, especially when the trans/non binary community has what they say/do/wear/exist under a microscope for all. Those from the LGBT communities have to hide who they are, police what they say, and ultimately don't get the support, understanding, and love from communities they are a part of, especially if they say something wrong,that their cis gendered peers are generally afforded. Often that responsibility falls back onto the LGBT persons shoulders to parse out and understand what the offender really meant. And this is speaking as a whole in society and not just here or because of what you and Ian posted, but all the weight from previous conversations, politicians, bigots, and hateful family members gets carried with you into every other converaation. It's just something to think about for the future. I appreciate Ian's apology and their true intent.

Ill leave it at this: I came here today to hopefully share in the release day of the new LJG album, and seeing the news in this thread about her and her treatment of Paris is heartbreaking enough. May Paris and her kid find safety from LJG, and Paris continue to heal from her traumas before LJG and from LJG.

 

And I’m not a good one?

Listen, to not perpetuate - I accept Ian’s apology (though wasn’t even asking for one) because we all have an opportunity to learn from one another. I appreciate that they didn’t push back and just listened, something I suggest you try out some time. It shouldn’t fall on the shoulders of trans people to educate every cis person in the room but unfortunately it often does and it’s cause of fucked up responses like I’ve seen in this thread as well as elsewhere on the internet re: the topic.

If you cared at all - you would realize the temperature is hot for the community so that makes it a bit hard to “chill” when people talk out of their ass without a second thought.

 

I’m not LGBTQ+ but I’ve never felt like part of the in-group, so when people do ‘you’re talking about a respected member of our group/Jerry is our guy and we have his back’ kind of stuff it reads icky and tribal, even if it feels loyal or like being a good friend from the inside of it.

Especially as someone who has neurodivergent traits, when I see that in progressive or inclusive spaces, my brain just wonders what the rules are. It also makes me less trusting that folks will have my back if I’m one day in a position where I have a fair grievance against someone they like. I fully see why it would make trans folks uneasy to read here.

 

Obviously the situation/conversation is very real and scary. So saying “chill” is a bad look. I’m sorry but just don’t think it’s necessary to rip up what Ian meant. I know they mean well.

 

...did Laura leave the house?

 

Yep, seems like it.

 

This whole situation is just weird and messy and really disappointing.

 

really wish they'd just stop posting

 

I feel like the more we continue to live our lives out loud as a society on social media these kind of uncomfortably public situations will just become more common. Not that I want to silence anyone. I get that it seems they took it online because other means wasn't working but I feel like couples revealing the intimacies of their relationships online is becoming increasingly common and I don't know what to think about it. sometimes I feel like I'm still in internet whiplash or culture shock as someone who was raised that you never gave personal info online and anonymity was the default and now we're at a polar opposite place.

 

Speaking generally not directly, I think it’s important to reconsider how we are talking to the LGBTQIA+ community at a time where collectively we are incredibly vulnerable. We have degraded as a society into a debate club where people feel emboldened to share their take on everything. For me that triggers a reaction because I see where people feel entitled to weigh in, or try and tell me how the community should react and I think that’s also total bullshit.

In a time where we are *all* under daily attack and threat while just trying to live our lives peacefully we need to be listening more to each other. I don’t think it’s necessary to rip up what I’m saying as a transgender person in a time that’s scarier and more invasive than I’ve ever lived. I’ve come home every day to headlines of my rights and access to health care being taken away, and gone online to see the discourse become so disgusting and hateful about my community. Logging off doesn’t solve that, I can’t travel as I risk being arrested at the airport for using the bathroom or my passport being revoked if I leave the country. It makes a person feel very backed into a corner as I’m sure you could imagine and being brushed off and having a cis person be given deference really adds insult to preexisting injury .

So, Unless you know how that anguish that daily hell feels like, the pit in your stomach when you see a transgender person in the headlines because you know what happens next, I just ask that people listen to us. That is the most important part of being an ally in 2025. I am not someone who takes joy in this kind of exchange but I’m someone who has a voice they will use because I know many are rightfully terrified to right now.

 

Thanks for the incredibly dismissive apology. I'm sorry, but if after the last page of comments you don't see why it's important to call out comments like that and have things be corrected, you'll never get it. It's always great to have someone come in and tell people to chill out and stop making it a big deal when it never effected them in the first place. You're right though, the community that is having their health care stripped away, their suicide prevention lines stripped away, their gender affirming care stripped away, their passports stripped, parents being arrested for treating their kids, they really should all just chill out.

 

I would also like to add that these conversations are intended to be mutually beneficial. It being in the accountability thread is well suited because it is something we all need to be and can always be more. I am not a fan of dogpile mentality especially when the person listens and is accountable in return. I don’t need someone to be eternally sorry - I just need equal voice for a smaller population who is incredibly marginalized.

My calling out the comments had less to do with who posted it or their reputation and everything to do with how it comes across to a member (or visitor) of this community as words on a screen. I have been on multiple iterations of this website, through multiple user profiles (a very trans experience lol) since I was a kid and have shared intimate details of my life to contribute to a conversation we are all having together- so I am also a valuable member to this site. There are other valuable members who have been open with who they are and likely others who aren’t, or don’t know that could be made to feel unwelcome by a casual comment - my speaking loudly is for them.

 

Seems Laura canceled her entire tour.

 

Good. She is clearly not in a good state of mind atm and I hope Paris is safe.