Accountability in Music • Page 1007

Not really buying this reason for not discussing FOB, especially considering Jeanae has talked about it in the last few years about how he was abusive and manipulative.

Not to mention there is a good chance there are other victims of him

another one to mention, I saw someone praising all American rejects for calling out BN, but I’m positive Tyson Ritter was out there hanging out with minors in the early 2000s. At least that’s what I’ve heard from multiple people

and again, not at all defending JL. He deserves everything he’s getting

 

yep totally fair to be skeptical. But I think it’s also a fair point to make

not following the part about it being a deflection to a broader topic. Pete Wentz isn’t a broader topic and we can be angry at two predators at once

 

Also, the FOB/PW thing has been brought up and discussed many times over on this site and its previous incarnation.

 

I haven't seen anything about Pete Wentz soliciting child porn, not that dating a 15 year old is ever okay, but there is a difference.
Whataboutism isn't going to make JL less guilty of being a predator.

 

I agree it doesn’t make JL less guilty, but personally I think having sex with a 15 year old is worse than soliciting nudes from one

Look, all I’m saying is I wish I saw the same level of anger and energy aimed at other predators that still have major platforms

 

Has there been any large media outlets posting the follow up article?

 

not even close to the same amount, especially considering how huge FOB are.

if you can find any substantial outcry when FOB first headlined WWWY then I’ll happily admit I’m mistaken, but I couldn’t find anything

 

I think everyone is trying to say that these things have been discussed, and the BN/JL issues are being centered right now because it's timely with the upcoming tour. If you are feeling passionately about this, I support you using your voice and using a platform to get it out there. Be an advocate. But I'm not sure what you're hoping to see from the folks who frequent this forum at this particular moment in time

 

I've connected with one of the biggest nationwide publications today, so everyone's gonna need to lock in.

 

you’re right, I’m probably not accomplishing much here. But the point is that the conversations have NEVER been centered around these other predators. At most a few comments then the subject is changed.

Do you not have any sympathy for the victims of these other guys?

 

That's actually a crazy question to ask me, dude.

 

i was pretty much with you up until this point, but that’s a crazy ass thing to ask a survivor of actual grooming.

 

Exactly this:

And your insistence that things other than BN/JL be discussed is what suggests to me it's being done in bad faith. The reason they're being discussed now is because they are especially relevant now as Aiyana's story has only recently come to light and the band is attempting their comeback right now after showing no signs of growth or even acknowledgment of the harm that's been done (including sitting silently while their fans attacked the survivors).

My understanding of the FOB/PW situation, from the many many times it's been discussed on AP/Chorus over the years, is that the ages people cite as being problematic aren't accurate, the person involved whose wishes we should most honor doesn't want it being discussed ad nauseum, and what happened there is not on the level of what JL did.

 

I’m gonna head out. Still not really interested in online arguments, just felt the need to put my perspective out there. Sorry to anyone I upset.

Hope my words made even a little bit of a difference to any FOB or MCR fans on the forum.

@aiyana91 best wishes and I hope you’re able to continue your journey of healing

 

Those bands are bigger and simultaneously, there also hasn't been a cult-like worshipping around those bands and fans harassing the victims. The situations are SO different.

If every post starts with "you're right" "I agree" "that's fair" I think we can just let it go there and not try to whatabout the people giving those points

 

the first part is simply not true, and the second part is really starting to feel like bad faith.

 

Pretty wild to think a forum you are not active in is the best place to just “put your perspective out” there.

 

Pete Wentz being a predatory groomer weirdo doesn't diminish Jesse Lacey being a predatory groomer weirdo. Both can be true; I'm not actively giving Fall Out Boy money either.

 

literally no one is saying we should ignore other accusations. people have talked about fob, all time low, pinegrove, whoever else. multiple times. is it a little weird to me that some people in these forums seem to not really be bothered by fob or other similar situations? sure. but that’s a minority of people.

 

Hot take, but the indie/emo scene is predominantly white -- and it really shows, especially in how poorly people organize around harm. I’ve worked closely with activists, lawyers, and PACs, and I can say from experience: accountability requires relentless focus. But in this scene, the moment someone speaks up, it often gets derailed by whataboutism, apathy, or endless discourse. If the community (the scene broadly, not just this forum) wants to be progressive, it needs to learn how to mobilize around harm -- not just consume it as content. This isn’t a dunk on anyone here, just an ongoing frustration. And while I don’t expect a forum to be the frontline of organizing, it does feel like a microcosm of how the scene as a whole struggles to grapple with accountability.

You all know you and your support mean the world to me, so please know this is not a personal attack on anyone!

 

I think it’s pretty easy to tell when someone comes in locked and loaded with long posts with lots of qualifiers like “I’m not saying that we shouldn’t talk about BN” and “I don’t like BN but…” that it’s bad faith. I personally think immediately cutting that off before they can do their 2nd act reveal and be a dick to other posters, especially ones that are direct victims, is the way to go but I do understand the previous discussion about letting them actually out themselves a little more before moderating or immediately pushing back firmly. What a weird impulse it is to come in with all that pretense and poorly obfuscated disguising.

 

Re: other bands, I think our feelings change over time. And we determine whatever our “line” is. I was only ever a casual FOB fan, and vaguely heard Pete dated an underage girl but never really looked into it.

I saw them live last year, but I don’t think I’d do that again. I know drawing that line after the fact really isn’t much, but it’s how I feel now.

I also bought tickets to see Vampire Weekend last year. But before the show I read that piece Tavi Gevinson wrote that’s “allegedly” about their relationship and I sold my tickets.

I think people bring up other “problematic” bands to hardline BN dissenters as a gotcha. And yeah, none of us are perfect. We all consume art by people who are varying degrees of bad, whether we know it or not. But the answer isn’t to go lighter on a band, because others got off “easy.”

I understand that calling other people hypocrites may make them feel better. But it’s still centering their own feelings instead of those who have been hurt.

 

Logging in for the first time in a long time to add another voice of support for @aiyana91.

I went through a very similar situation with a member of a band I loved when I was younger and am still parsing out my feelings on him/the band over a decade later. Reading your article was painful and cathartic at the same time. I know the stress around these conversations and fighting this fight are overwhelming. I straight up logged out four years ago to avoid it because I couldn’t handle it anymore. You’re doing important work and I’m so grateful for it. Don’t let the bastards get you down.

 

Thank you ♡ I'm glad you found my article. Grief is circular. There's the initial grief, then the grief that comes later when you realize what actually happened. And the grief that comes after that when you process it for sometimes years. Sending you tenderness and resilience.

 

what a fucking tone deaf question