Accountability in Music [ARCHIVED] • Page 562

It definitely doesn't just apply to you. The discourse (here or otherwise) is always dominated by cishet dudes who for some reason feel the need to be aggressive. It's uncomfortable. It's been brought up by women and POC countless times and they're always ignored.

 

this site has lost so many of its non-straight white male posters over the years, and many of whom have stayed have even still become more infrequent with their posting. I’ve actually privately communicated with several people who have left the site and they have all mentioned how much better they feel mentally and emotionally since leaving the site and have encouraged me to do so, and soon enough I probably will. maybe next time this thread rolls around to (rightfully) scrutinizing festival lineups and tour packages for the lack of representation amongst them, y’all can also look inward and interrogate why there’s probably even more dismal representation amongst posters remaining on this site.

also, I assure you that you don’t take these matters more seriously than me, as a multiple time victim lol like seriously again get the fuck over yourself

 

jesus christ

 

and judging by your posts? I wouldn’t want to. you seem like an extremely toxic individual.

 

more like Ralph Cifaretto

 

Dude, your response should be to apologize and learn from this exchange.

 

I think it’s extremely important to bring attention to the bullshit some bands try to get away with, I do. Taking advantage of impressionable fans, abusing power, etc are all important and I don’t think anyone would diminish that. My only gripe around here is that so many times certain fanbases are looked down on, scolded, as if we’re all just ignoring accusations or siding with abusers. From the bottom of my heart, I do not have the time or connection to music that I used to to sort through allegations that aren’t widely reported. I appreciate the time some of you take to bring the awareness, but for the love of god can we get away from the “Ah typical behavior from XYZ fans” or “doesn’t shock me in the slightest coming from them!” It adds absolutely nothing and takes away from the whole point.

 

it’s very apparent to me that a lot of self-stylized righteous dudes on this board care more about dunking on people than accountability and the thread is bearing this out

 

I don’t think some folks realize their brutal zeal in this context is its own flavor of masculine violence

(that tends to repel the people with whom they’re ostensibly exercising allyship)

 

I really don't think anyone in here is trying to say you can't criticize The 1975 or any other band that engages in problematic behavior. It's the fact that there are multiple (ie. more than one) users on this site who have a habit of coming in super fucking hot with issues of accountability in a way that seems to only ever result in conflict. I get being angry. It makes me angry too. But there's a level of cynicism and condescension I see in this thread and others that does absolutely nothing to move these discussions forward and often just seems like an opportunity for (mostly White men, as nohandstoholdonto pointed out) certain users to make a snotty comment and bounce.

Like, nohandstoholdonto once again raised the issue of discourse on this site being dominated by White men, and it's already getting lost! That's a point that has come up many, many times, and it never seems to go anywhere. If we want this website to be a space where genuine conversations about accountability can happen, we probably need to work on holding back the urge to get defensive and really think about how our words, though well-intentioned, can alienate those who voices we need the most.

 

All of this. I personally agree that users coming in here with condescension or shit like “not surprised”, “who could have seen this coming” are not helpful. It’s good to care about accountability but coming in this thread or other threads super strong or making big assumptions (i.e. assuming The 1975 thread was willfully ignoring the situation instead of that no one was aware of it) doesn’t leave much room for any positive outcome. Obviously there are times when someone is being deliberately obtuse and more “harsh” language may be necessary but more often than not that’s not helpful and doesn’t work towards the goal of accountability, just unnecessary infighting.

 

i do think it is something that happens on this site with the 1975 a fair amount, which is odd. i also think you are being a bit of a prick about this in a way that isn't really cool at all and you should probably re-evaluate that and sit a few out.

 

being needlessly defensive over people who deserve to be heard voicing legitimate concerns

 

I think most people here are well intended, but the perception or unintentional effects of the way one talks about something can be different than the intended messaging, and everyone should try to be aware of that and course correct if/as needed.

 

Instead of going back and forth on how was I x, stop calling me y, how about we focus on what was previously brought up of why this website seems to have many minorities (women, POC, LGBT+, etc.) leaving in droves due to straight cis white men wanting to assert their dominance and show up others on an online forum.

I lurk here often and good god, some of y’all are exhausting. This thread is meant to discuss the toxic bullshit that is happening in the industry and hopefully how minorities can be better represented in our scene and this discourse continues to devolve to bickering instead of focusing on actual accountability.

Look inward and stop trying to be tough on the internet.

 

Did you even read Mary’s post or do you not care?

 

I'm trying to say this as nicely as possible. This is the kind of defensiveness myself and others are talking about. You've now had two women (among various others) rightfully express concern over the way certain men conduct themselves in these forums, and you're essentially feeding right into their descriptions. I saw your post about being a survivor, and I am genuinely sorry you had that experience. As someone who has also had traumatic experiences inform my worldview, I know how infuriating it can be to see abuse go unpunished. But at the end of the day, when you have several people telling you that your conduct in a discussion is questionable at best and you choose to ignore them, that's sort of a problem.

 

hopefully, this will be my final post on the matter and probably the site as a whole.

I would first like to point out that I never once mentioned The 1975 or defended them in my prior posts, and I intentionally did not quote any one user for a reason. this has been an issue for years and it isn’t even exclusive to this site but I do believe the issue runs particularly deep here, and also like this is a site I frequent enough to feel comfortable speaking on it (yet, any time I do it seems it’s either met with backlash, accusations about my character or “loyalty” to a band or whatever, or ignored). I also, to reiterate, did not quote any particular poster because it wasn’t about or meant to be pointed at any one poster. there were multiple users who prompted me to make the post (one that is literal years in the making, I can’t tell you how many times I have written and deleted similar posts).

regardless, anthony_soprano then took it personally (which like, if the shoe fits, sure!) turned it around and made it about himself and consistently talked down at me and had a generally aggressive candor in doing so. he attempted to downplay my integrity w/r/t how I feel and treat cases of abuse, etc, and accused me of weaponizing my identity in order to invalidate him (as if my identity doesn’t inform the way I navigate the world, and in turn inform my perspectives on certain matters such as this, and isn’t valid or valuable to take into consideration). I told him to get the fuck over himself because at every turn he played victim and made it all about him, acting like he was above me for taking a harder stance or whatever.

and now he’s mad that I haven’t responded to his private message, when a) I am literally at work and having an already fucking horrible day here to boot and b) he literally opened his message to me by detailing his trauma to me without warning, which in turn triggered me and caused me to check out and so no, I did not respond to it, and with how he has consistently treated me with his posts here (and even in his demeanor in the message) I don’t intend to respond. sorry if that makes me seem like a bad person or something but he clearly wants some kind of apology from me and I don’t have one for him.

and this brings me to my last point, which is really just a less sardonic rehash of my first post:

I’m super tired of men not being able to see that there are myriad ways in which toxic masculinity can rear it’s ugly head and inform their actions and the way that they handle discourse and even just simple conversation. you can be toxically masculine (or just toxic in general!) in the name of noble causes, it’s actually more common than one might think!!!

 

Also, I'm saying all this as someone has said some stupid shit in this thread and across this website and been called out for it. I've learned a lot, and am still learning all the time, and one of the most important lessons I've had to internalize is that sometimes the best thing you can possibly do is shut up and listen.

 

I’m not ignoring them.

I am sorry to @nohandstoholdonto because I thought I was course correcting to a better discussion and better understanding of each other but I misstepped and will not message you or address you anymore.

 

I do think it’s very weird that this episode was triggered by a post snidely criticizing people in a separate thread for not discussing an issue they may or may not have even been aware of, but when it comes to a couple of women openly vocalizing their discomfort in our own community as a direct result of that type of continued behavior it’s suddenly crickets

 

Please stay on the site @nohandstoholdonto

 

It’s been brought up before and I just...don’t know what to do or say about it. But seeing some posts, I can understand why.

 

Perhaps most people (celebrities, internet posters, average people of all genders and orientations, myself and yourself) are more toxic than they themselves can ever realize, and the constant devolution of this thread into endless finger pointing is a reflection of where these sorts of discussions were always going to end up since no one can seemingly admit that

I have shitty opinions. You despite your best efforts have shitty opinions. Berating each other over them most often only perpetuates them