Accountability in Music [ARCHIVED] • Page 358

i mean even the guitar riff to walk sounds racist somehow

 

I said a thing to Pitchfork just now:

 

Been bombarded with abuse from a bunch of 14 year olds yet?

 

Pitchfork just cannot stop boosting pos abusers

 

To give Pitchfork credit, their investigative journalism on Xxx’s abuse has been excellent. The audio tape mentioned by @Aaron Mook was unearthed by Pitchfork; they also published his abuse survivor’s deposition which details the abuse. A few days ago, they published another piece about The Fader’s documentary about his abuse that wasn’t released due to pressure from Xxx’s camp and changing hands at the publication. The review also explicitly mentions his abuse allegations numerous times. I think they’ve done their due diligence—I don’t think it’s fair to say they’re “boosting” him at all.

 

They are though

The Culture Industry by Theodor W. Adorno

 

What i mean is, mass culture launders concepts of identity and perception thru symbolic images, so whether one thinks they’re a free thinker or not, they def are not and u are what u eat.

i think this is why stuff like the politics thread is “entertaining” but rather counter productive. When you ingest that kind of spectacle even if yr hate reading it, you’re allowing it to mutate your epistomology.

 

I feel very sad about this rn because it seems like malignant actors like corporations, political parties, the extremely wealthy, russian propagandists, other bad people have figured out how to leverage folks media illiteracy to distort the shape of things in shitty ways

 

wtf, Swans actually put out an album this year? i see ben frost contributed to it too. incredibly disappointing.

 

I mean, sure, but if we’re going to drag out Adorno to say that Pitchfork is bad, we might as well delete this thread, which is exclusively counter-productive. Feels like a cop out to me—yeah, the entire pop culture landscape, and the media organizations that cover it, are likely compromised. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take a critical eye to evaluate the actors within our compromised system to determine the extent to which they are or aren’t perpetuating harm.

 

But if the thread is counter productive simulacra, is there a way to pivot the conversation towards action?

if the system is the problem, shouldn’t we break the system? The world doesnt need media, the world doesnt need criticism, if p4k goes away for example, society is strengthened.

 

By now most regulars on these corners of chorus are well aware of the problems that get cycled thru over and over. At times i find myself feeling like its this pantomime of social engagement that is def at times vital and valuable, but i think fair to say insufficeint.

Every week in the politics thread is “ugh gonna be one of those weeks again”, how can this chorus of ppl...i dont know, not have a week like that?

 

(I include myself as part of the problem. No intent to criticize anyone)

 

Idk, I have a taken a huge step back from this site over the course of the past few months—and truthfully, I’ve taken a huge step back from the internet as a whole—largely because I don’t think this thread is useful, and I still think it veers into toxic territory more often than not. I don’t see the purpose when the general cycle here is: user 1 posts a tweet, user 2 says “fuck that band,” they both gets likes, and the system continues. All it does is leave me upset about the state of the world, and upset that, to quote Jia Tolentino, “making a righteous political statement has come to seem, for many people, like a political good in itself.”

we had a conversation in here not too long ago about how this thread could possibly pivot to more productive accountability conversations, and not just linger in the “fuck this band” discourse that dominates it, and idk, it went poorly. I don’t think it’s possible. I think, at this point, this thread mostly just serves to make us all worse while violent and abusive people in the industry continue to thrive.

 

That’s really well said and captures a lot of how I feel too. I don’t feel like I want to throw baby away with the bathwater, and I feel I need to think on these confusing topics more and consider how this could all evolve, but there is a part of me that feels like this mode of engagement is a bit of a whoopsy.

I feel myself wrestling with this nagging feeling the internet such as it is now is a huge huge huge huge part of the problem, but still, i like it, or maybe im just addicted...i just dont even know. Its complicated

 

I don’t agree with that sentiment. There have been articles shared here that have enlightened me and resulted in myself speaking out against certain artists on other platforms, which has then reached an additional audience of people who genuinely didn’t know.

Even more importantly, I’ve listened to the folks in this thread that have bravely shared their experiences, equated it to things I see happening in my life or things I may have been guilty of doing, and have become a better person because of it.

That might not be huge, but it’s something and it’s measurable. I’ve had direct questions for folks in this thread (like @Anna Acosta) and their insight has helped me in numerous ways.

 

Its kind of a lose lose situation. Negative articles about abuse definitely give more attention to abusive artists, I think for X particularly that "controversy" became a big part of his image and the terrible things he did were part of the buzz surrounding him.

If you ignore it and post nothing about abusive artists, other media will still talk about them, and a critical voice is gone from the narrative. On the other hand, talking about it at all, even with journalistic detail about abusive actions, gives attention and a platform to terrible people.

There really is no bad news, and in an online landscape saturated with content, getting anything on Pitchfork is huge, there are thousands of talented artists who don't have abuse as part of their narrative who would love to be featured and have their music heard, when instead time is being spent saying "hey, you probably shouldn't support this.

The whole system is pretty fucked and heavily tilted to benefit abusers. There's no easy solution to how to cover them without also exposing them to a larger audience that they can use to get their music out there. Which is hugely useful because a large percentage of potential fans will learn of an artist from their abusive actions or "controversy", but listen to their music objectively to "separate the art from the artist".

A massive shift is needed or these people will keep getting famous. Its undeniably beneficial coverage wise to be a piece of shit, which is why so many famous people, well, are.

 

That seems very fair to me and should be acknowledged. I also do think there are many positive elements to this mode of convo, is that enough?

I dunno if its the UK elections throwing my feelings out of calibration, but the chaos feels like its getting worse not better

 

Yo, also side note can Chorus rid of the like system? A like feels good, but it gamifies the conversation.

or maybe disable it on social wellness threads?? I dunno how that works i dont do computer

 

Ive been babbling like a pretentious english dept asshole about Adorno since i was 18 and surely alienating a whole bunch of allies, but dude is fuckin fucking right; culture and consumerism cannot coexist.

I dunno what to do about that.

we can hold every abuser, asshole, d bag, and cro mag to account til the end of time but they will win if we dont break the system. If we dont address why the system rewards toxic activity.

 

I don't know about that. Being able to casually hit "like" while skimming around is a good way to say you appreciate a post when nothing else needs to be added. It's a far more efficient system than people filling threads up with quotes that just say "I agree." or whatever. Sometimes I just want to acknowledge a post without getting involved in the discussion and maybe also let the person know they're not typing into the void.

 

Yeah i feel that, i like shit way more than i post and it’s

Maybe there isnt a way around the conversation being gamified, maybe thats just the game of life. I can’t think of a way to phrase how I feel rn and maybe somebody else out there also feels this way and could, but it feels like semi counter-democratic, socialist, commie, whatever yr preferred word for people power is.

 

Are we really gonna have the like conversation again?

 

Just want to echo this 100%. I've said to before but I'm a casual listener but, because of this thread, have spoken out "IRL" about shitty things I see happening or try to make other people aware of screwed up things that some popular artists have tried to sweep under the rug. I can't begin to say enough about how much people in this thread have opened my eyes. It sucks to see things get so cyclical sometimes, but it has undoubtedly had a positive impact on me.