Accountability in Music [ARCHIVED] • Page 281

I don't know his beliefs these days, but Tilian grew up Mormon

 

And speaking in this strange universal language of "people" is always so generalized. I just don't buy the idea from the quote "it’s interesting which people care about" that the people into this band's comeback care at all and they're selectively saying Tim can come back but Brand New can't. Those same folks would welcome back new Brand New music immediately as well.

 

I think it's harmful to claim that some sort of societal good was done by imprisoning somebody, for one, and two, to think that rehabilitation ends at the point where a prison sentence ends. I'm weary of prison in general because rehabilitation isn't the focus - that's another topic - but then to claim that a greater good was somehow completed the moment he walked out of a prison, and that somehow represents the 100% complete transformation of a person worthy of walking right back into the space he had before been an abuser in - you really need to do some mental gymnastics to pretend you believe that the cycle of abuse is over. If that hadn't been an undercover officer he had tried to solicit, and his plan would have worked, his wife would be dead, and he'd be in prison for life. You can "separate the art from the artist" over that single degree of fate? As if the terror a woman would have to face to find out that your own husband had tried to have you killed is not enough for you to not engage with somebody's work?

I think we need to first recognize that accepting people, mainly men, back into these spaces is incredibly harmful to the scene as a whole, because it normalizes a cycle of abuse. If people can just do what Pinegrove did - a situation where there was at least a modicum of work done on his part to "make amends" - and then they get to come back and sell out shows and make music, why wouldn't they? I mean who is stopping them? Any woman or survivor of abuse could tell you exactly what type of signal it sends when nobody is willing to make sacrifices - and I mean that as the bare minimum you could do, which is not to engage with music from abusers.

How am I supposed to feel safe when a mostly male dominated scene has largely said, sure, go try and kill your wife, I'll still pay to come see you? "Separate the art from the artist" is just a way of saying "I don't care" without actually saying that. Feigning ambivalence still creates harm; you cannot passively "separate the art from the artist." Either you're supporting them financially, or at the very least engaging with their content and normalizing their music - the simple act of listening to it in whatever space you're in is still giving a platform to that person. You are internalizing that platform.

I think we need to stop equating not being allowed into the scene with not being allowed to work at all, which is the fallacy often echoed back when somebody says an abuser should not get to profit in the space they abused in. Let them go do anything else - but when somebody with a platform actively harms somebody else, they shouldn't get to reclaim that platform. It should be that simple, and we should stop clutching our pearls about the poor lives of the abuser and what they're going to do - that's on them, their family and friends to figure out. Our focus should be how do we support the survivor, and how do we make sure this never happens again? The discourse at the end of these cycles, when the abuser inevitably makes their comeback - so often is focused on them and what they deserve to do now that they've fulfilled some set of criteria for "rehabilitation" (or...often not) and this is entirely because people stream their music, buy tickets to their show, talk about their new song with friends, and ultimately re-normalize their work back into the scene and we just start all over again. It HAS to stop with the end user - us. It HAS to.

 

Fuuuuuucking this. I cannot deal with all of Tim’s bros that have argued with me that “he did his time” or “but she didn’t die” or “everyone deserves forgiveness”. It’s the biggest cop out bullshit so they don’t have to admit that they’re actively supporting an abusive piece of shit. I do think everyone deserves another chance, so long as they’ve taken accountability and clearly made an effort to be better, but that doesn’t mean that they should be handed their platform back as if nothing happened. Go get another regular ass job. And it doesn’t seem genuine when your forgiveness victim bullshit has to be entirely public for everyone to see how much of a broken man you are. Literally the worst.

 

Those same people also don't really believe everyone deserves forgiveness. They believe the people they like deserve forgiveness, no matter what they did or how many people they hurt.

 

That’s a really good point that I don’t know if I ever even really thought of. But that sounds like the nail on the head, based on how my conversations with some of them have went. It’s really disheartening (understatement) that victims are such a back burner thought to these people.

 

It all goes back to the toxic fav stanning mentality that gives you things like, for example, the r/brandnew community of morons over on reddit. People don't want to confront it when they're favorite artists do horrible things.

Honestly it's much easier to do what I do and just cut them out of your life completely. Way less exhausting time spent equivocating and coming up with creative excuses to try and justify still supporting people who don't deserve it.

 

Yeah there's so many other bands/artists out there, cutting out the bad ones isn't really that hard.

 

like Nervus!

 

Nervus is the best band

 

Backed. Em is a gem.

 

Nervus always bring out bands with LGBTQ+/non-male/POC members on their tours and call out shitty people in the scene. Every band should be Nervus

 

Charly Bliss is also a good replacement band

I know women/nb people can be abusers too so only listening to non male bands isn't perfect

 

Fever 333 are another band who are saying and doing all the right things in these areas. People can feel however they want about their music, but Jason makes a point at each and every show to let people know that their shows are a safe space for all, inclusive to all, and that no racism, sexism, transphobia, bigotry, etc etc etc of any kind will ever be tolerated at their shows. All three members also make a point to spend at least an hour or so after all of their headlining shows to have conversations with anyone who is willing.

I realize behavior and actions like these should be the bare minimum for all artists, but it’s nice to see another band actually practicing what they preach.

 

On the topic of bands doing what they can, I’ve been impressed with the representation Jawbreaker has had at all of their reunion shows. They SO easily could have gotten a bunch of bros out there from either throwback bands or current emo darlings and most people wouldn’t have batted an eye, but instead they’ve taken out like War on Women, Pohgoh, Charly Bliss, Waxahatchee, and others. It’s such an easy thing to do and yet so many big bands either don’t care or are actively involved in keeping the boys club intact.

 

Kurt Travis was always better

 

Right before I saw this I was randomly just thinking how at least we still have Kurt’s two albums not sullied by having trashcans as lead singer

 

King Blues singer Jonny Fox suing five women over 'sexual predator' allegations

Ugh this fucking guy

 

I have a friend in the UK who supports Jonny and I just want to be like girl, what are you doing, let’s talk. If I, being from the US, knows all the shit he’s done, surely she does as well, living in London.

 

I also stan Kurt over Tilian but I don't think he was defending Tim, just giving a hypothetical reason for why he's been able to come back.

Brought up Mike Vick in another tweet as a comparison.

 

The way he's responded to people and his overall tone definitely makes it seem like he is defending him.

Oh so we're fine with the animal abuser too great.

 

He didn't need to share his opinion, makes it feel like he was defending him

 

It also wasn't phrased as "this why I think some people are accepting him back", it was phrased as if that was what he himself thinks about the situation. At least it was to me, anyway.

 

I didn't take it like that, I thought he was more pointing how people in sports and entertainment get second chances much easier than the average joe all because their talent bring in $$$$