Accountability in Music [ARCHIVED] • Page 156

I think it is surprising for good men to hear about how rampant it is, whether it's from a female friend or seeing it in the news.

Like, if you're not an asshole and haven't sexually assaulted someone, etc... you wouldn't think it's as rampant as it is because it's not even in your realm.

 

I mean when multiple people say “this bums me out” or “omg why,” are they saying that because there’s an actual victim who has been hurt or because they’re upset someone they liked is a bad person? if it’s the former that’s fine, if it’s the latter then priorities need to be reassessed

 

I only heard about these allegations when they were about to make the jump from shitty misogynistic metalcore band to bafflingly popular radio rock band, looks like the urination incident was the tip of the iceberg with this fuckbag.

 

maybe if “good men” would listen to the experiences of the vast majority of women they’d realize how rampant it is? women have been telling us forever what’s going on and it’s only recently that people want to listen and even now people are still shocked despite what women have been telling us for the longest time

 

Yeah, I totally agree with this, except putting good men in quotations.

My point was that everyone learns of how often and terrible it is for the first time and it is legit surprising because you wouldn't think something so horrific would be so common.

 

Why is it assumed it isn't both? In fact why are we assuming anything unless it's explicitly stated anyway?

The two posters who said that sort of thing above never said what part they were talking about, so why not just give them a pass and assume the best unless they state their only concern is the musician. Calling people out for making a relatively normal post seems really silly to me and we have long had an issue of this website and the forums becoming toxic and we need to try avoid arguing when there is no need surely.

 

it’s not even this specific case it happens literally every time this happens and at this point is annoying

 

Fair enough. I have zero interest in taking this conversation further so let's just move on.

 

I think expecting any celebrity to uphold standards of good personality is incredibly stupid, especially today. Don't look up to famous people who couldn't give a shit about who you are. You are not a priority to them and you never will be, unless by some minor miracle you become close to them. You want to emulate them musically and let them influence your work? 100% understandable. But anything past that and it just becomes idol worship.

 

Y'all really need to understand that the main fanbase for most of these people is made up of impressionable teens. They don't understand that it's "stupid" to look up to people. They're looking for someone to relate to and a space that feels safe. That's why regardless of how silly it may seem to idolize or expect these people to be good, they do have a responsibility to not break that trust (or the trust of those in their personal lives, obviously).

Whether they like it or not, they have access to power over people and it should be expected that they conduct themselves properly because of that- the same way that we act professionally at our jobs. There just isn't the same infrastructure in place in the "scene" to hold that standard, which is why we kind of have to do it in the court of public opinion.

 

That's understandable, I suppose I'm just jaded, having lived on Long Island and being closely involved with the scene here in my younger years, because none of this "shocking" misconduct information about any LI band is new to me at all, it's been an open secret for at least a decade now.

 

IA Tbh even as an adult I look up to certain celebs and musicians. It doesn't mean I think they're Gods who can do no wrong but I believe in what they say and the message they send out through their art. I feel like there's this idea that it's dumb or stupid to look up to public figures. And I agree in a sense that we shouldn't put them on pedestals but also given the nature of music and why we listen, it seems so natural to form that deep connection and then I guess expect or hope that they're good people because we also see some of ourselves in them. And that's as adults so for kids and teens it's even more impressionable. I think it becomes a big problem when an artist is outed and someone still latches onto that and defends them blindly which enables them to get away with victimizing further, but I totally get the idol part. Maybe cause I've always been a bit impressionable and naive lol espesh as a kid and teen

 

For sure- I mean, I would be totally heartbroken if it turned out that Hayley Williams was horrible in some way. I'm 25, but I feel like I grew up with her and like she's always set an example that I strive to follow. I also am not surprised that society generally dismisses these feelings because it's mainly teenage girls who experience them. They make up the bulk of fandom in pretty much every market and men find it super easy to dunk on them for being idiots or whatever. Obviously the feeling isn't limited to girls, but that kind of emotion and dedication is often considered feminine and therefore hysterical.

 

I wish that fearlessness and devotion were rewarded, yeah they could be a little extra but who among us isn't

 

I do think, for me, observing this process of accountability, especially towards those I looked up to, has helped me mature.

I don't look at public figures as having any special powers, abilities, or influence over me like they once did. They're just people with talents, but otherwise no better than me, and some of them are very corruptible.

I can enjoy their work (or not) and still connect with it - but I can also survive without them. They're not intrinsic to my own self or define me as a person; I'm more than just a fan of an artist. I've learned to assess them more as my peers, on a social and moral level, rather than as icons or idols beyond my reproach.

 

I like what Christina Aguilera said recently (shocking I know!!!) about how you have to have something wrong with you to wanna be a celebrity/famous, including herself. Not to say all famous people are awful or totally dysfunctional but more like a human search for validation kind of way that reminds me that they're all insecure and human too. Just humans that spend what I make in a month at one night at the club lol.

 

Totally agree with Kayla and Kiana, and in addition to that, I think I always grew up being told that things would be okay if you stayed or communicated with the right people. Even when you start figuring out thats bullshit in theory because systems of oppression and all that touch every part of life, it's still hard to unlearn. You keep running to find someone or something that is safe, and ive bounced around very different communities for different interests and realized you get fucked over no matter what, and that never stops being exhausting

 

Regarding The Orwells...

 

good riddance

 

yeah, fuck em

 

Thank you both for saying what I was trying to in a much better way than I could.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. There's also the very-much-not-small fact that in the case of musicians and artists you feel, usually, an emotional connection with their work, whatever it happens to be. Thus, whenever the cat gets out of the bag it, personally, often feels that I allowed a small piece of that person's being into my own essence and it leaves me feeling more than a little violated.

Nowhere near as much as the victims, fucking obviously, but you get the point.

 

The Nomore-wells

 

I mistyped the /r/mlbstreams url (go sox!!!!!) and my google history regurgited the brand new subreddit to me. I was about to click out but this thread caught my eye

Zac Clark gave me some info I forgot to share.. • r/brandnew

Look, we all know how brand new fans are, but we also all know how men like jesse lacey are. I would like to remind everyone that this dude has friends who fully think what he's done is under prescription and that he's a new man now or whatever the fuck enablers invent to excuse men who've done no restorative work whatsoever and continue to take pleasure in the harm done to their victims and are only sorry they got caught. And that these friends will help him return to a scene where he's not welcome.

Stay vigilant and don't hold out for those slimeballs.

 

"laying low still for the stuff to pass"

Oh fuck right off.