Accountability in Music [ARCHIVED] • Page 141

I dunno, just interviews I have seen made him seem that way. I could be wrong though, I don't know too much about him, it's just the impression from the odd interview.

 

I remember there was some drama way back in the absolutepunk days where everyone thought Yellowcard were assholes but I don't remember what it was specifically

 

Probably that Ryan is an asshole bc he is lol

Like I love the guy because yellowcard is my favorite band. But after 14 years, ~40 shows, and many conversations I just have a pretty specific view of him that won’t be changing anytime soon.

 

Interesting, may I enquire as to why that is? Obviously you don't have to share, especially if it is personal stuff.

 

I think y’all are giving him the benefit of the doubt b cause of nostalgia and you like his music. The much more likely situation, he’s heard about the abuse and thought at least “it doesn’t matter it’s all about the music” or at worst “I can’t believe some lying woman tried to take these guys down I will support them and make sure they have access and a platform to my young fans”.

Either way, fuck him and his support of shitty people, he’s part of the problem.

 

I mean I could go on and on but I’m not trying to run a smear campaign against the guy online. I’ll say this; have you ever met the guy? Lol because honestly it comes down simply to that. Almost anyone that’s ever met him thinks he’s an ass, and it’s no coincidence that so many share that view.
You can pm me if you want more details. I do want to speak bluntly about my opinions of him but like I said I’m not trying to smear the guy

 

Honestly it’s probably just that he takes these types of things with a grain of salt and chalks them up to be rumors.

I think he’s an ass but I don’t think he’s a sinister person or anything like that. (Like it’s deff not the “worst” situation you described”

 

Most likely scenario: He doesn’t even know about the photo situation (most people and bands don’t) and doesn’t follow much online scene talk these days and goes on the tours his booking agent gets and recommends for him.

 

I’ve said this before, if a booking agent set up a tour with someone like that, they should get fired.

How hard is it to do a little research on bands you’re going to spend months on a tour with? If he doesn’t know he should educate himself, discounting his support of this band as ignorant doesn’t just give him a pass. This is how an entire industry can be full of abusers who face no consequences, just people not bothering to look into shit or not caring about the bullshit being committed again and again.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

That's too bad. He was great when I met him

 

If you google "Moose Blood accusations" what you find are articles about the band kicking out their drummer. The second page has this article which kind of gives a rundown of what happened. But, if one were to do research on the band, there's not really a lot you'll find right away on this topic. I don't even remember everything that happened and if the members involved are still in the band or not and I don't know where I'd even point someone to learn about this right now. (I just spent a few minutes googling trying to find a definitive link because I've been confused what the current status is with that band too. Last I heard I thought they were suing someone?)

I didn't say it "gave him a pass" I said I would not be surprised if he doesn't know, as most people don't know, because he doesn't spend much time reading things going on in this music scene and the information isn't actually laid out anywhere in a way that is easy to read/find. There's no "read this article" and see what they've done on this band that I can find with a few minutes of looking. I'd be willing to bet he does the tours he can get and his agent got him this tour with a band that's much bigger than he is (he's an opening act) and he took it without him, or any other people around him, knowing anything beside the top-line on almost all the articles about this (band kicked out the dude that was accused of stuff).

 

I don't think I've ever heard of a situation where a booking agent was fired. It obviously wouldn't happen for a situation like this, though.

 

Especially big ones. Getting a good booking agent in this music scene is 1) hard, 2) very much a group of people that all know each other. I don't know if he's still working with Corrie Christopher Martin, but she was Yellowcard's agent for years at Paradigm.

Edit: It's Jason Parent at APA. They're very big. They also represent Moose Blood (and a boatload of other bands ... from Alkaline Trio to Thrice and almost everyone in between) in the US. So, there's the connection.

 

If the issue is just awareness, then we in this community need to do more to spread information on abusers in this scene. I don’t know what the answer would be, but clearly not enough is being done to organized against system abuse in this scene and music industry at large.

If the issue is ambivalence, or even support, where no matter how clearly the evidence was presented that someone would not care or choose to ignore it for their own personal gain, then fuck him. The only way forward is to stop supporting him. If y’all are fans you should care about this, let him know.

 

I agree, but how? Like, I'd send the dude a text with the definitive article or information if I could find one, but I can't. I spent the last 15 minutes looking for something. I can't even figure out what the hell went on with Moose Blood, or is still going on with them, let alone Neck Deep, State Champs, or some of the other situations out there. I know, at a top level, that something happened but always forget details or so many other scandals have broken I've forgotten if it was a bad tweet or someone kicked out of the band and defense of those people at the time, or something more like they're still in the band. The first post in this thread has a Google Doc, but there's nothing in there about Moose Blood. This is the best I can find on the topic.

But that's not the issue as I see it, so jumping to "fuck him" and "stop supporting him" seems like going from 0 to 190.

 

Talk to him, see if he’s aware of anything and even cares to be informed I guess. Someone in this thread can probably break down what happened and the after math.

I guess sweeping shit under the rug is very effective.

 

And this is where I think we have a fundamental, core, problem. If you're asking someone to fire their booking agent, the person probably most responsible for their livelihood, who also books the band in question, and most every other band in this scene, I think I need something more than crowd-sourcing a breakdown of what happened. The NME article is still the best I can find, and it still leaves me not quite sure what went down. Do you know what happened well enough to explain it? Like, it seems most of us don't even have a firm grasp on the Moose Blood thing. Last I heard, someone said the lead singer took photos off their phone and sent them to the band's WhatsApp account, he denied it, and there was a lawsuit? Is that right? Has the original party said anything else or has anything else come of that? I can find the band's statement:

This allegation is entirely false and we strongly refute it. Until now we have resisted giving it any credence by commenting. However, the many repeats on social media have left us no option but to make our position clear.

We are taking legal action. The process to resolve this issue is underway. We do not propose to comment further at this stage.

But nothing else after that. Is that the core of it or am I missing more?

 

I've heard through the grapevine for a while that Hopeless told their bands not to comment on Moose Blood at all. I don't even know if Ryan's still on that label, since I think the EP was self-released, but I know I was told that was why TWY and Bayside and many other bands say nothing about it.

Edit (July 31, 2018): I've spoken with someone at Hopeless that says this is 100% false. That no one has told any band not to comment and the bands have chosen to not comment on their own. So, I was lied to, but alas. Also, the label appears to believe they've investigated the Moose Blood situation and the band has fully denied this happening so there's no reason for anyone else to comment.

After I've spent more time researching Moose Blood and this specific situation (and some of the other things that have been whispered about this band for a while) ... I still strongly disagree. The accuser has not backed down when threatened with legal bills. The accuser is still publicly saying this took place, under her real name, to this day. I believe women that come forward. I also believe that the label, and the bands on the label, should take a more active role in making this music scene a safer place. I can talk about it until I'm blue in the face, but I can't drop a band. I can't not tour with a band. My words will never mean near as much as if a big name on that label would say "I believe women." And that's why I push bands and labels to weed this out from within.

 

They invaded a woman’s privacy, stole her photos, shared them, and when she called them out publicly they threatened to sue. From what I can tell the legal situation is ongoing and the victim’s twitter is private probably to avoid harassing fans.

The fundamental issue we have is whether or not to care about this stuff when it comes back to making money. I’ve taken a hard stance on this, and it’s going to be different for others especially in the situation who may not be clear of what actually went down, but I remain firm that this is how this shit continues to happen. As long as the waters are muddy and the abusers can make someone money, it doesn’t really matter what they did. It’s hugely frustrating and I honestly don’t know what to do to make people give a shit, cause the whole system incentivizes not giving a shit.

 

Hard yikes

 

More searching has led me to this. Which lays it out much clearer.

 

That's what I can find as well, but her twitter and tumblr are both still open.

 

Most clear accounts always have to be on nearly unreadable sites, huh

I gotta get back to work, we can talk about the ethics in supporting a corrupt system vs needing aspects of the system to survive, which lead to further corruption because of people relying on that system being unable to question or challenge those in it, uuhhh, later.

 

Booking agents and labels have too much power.