Accountability in Music [ARCHIVED] • Page 126

the place I went for lunch was playing xxx yuck.

 

I've been worried about something like this happening

 

Luckily, I haven't heard enough of his music to remember any of it.

 

I'd hazard a guess whoever chose that was someone who has no interest in rap and has no idea about his issues, and just chose it to be "current"

 

Didn't give a shit about him before and don't give a shit now.

 

Here's a few questions, hopefully constructive.

The woman the article refers to as Vitoria Chan is quoted as saying this:

"Vitoria Chan, the woman behind the Facebook post that got picked up by news outlets, confirmed her social media statements to The Daily Beast. “I met him when I was 15, but the communication with the cult started when I was about 13, 14 years old,” Chan says. “He has lots and lots of girls involved, and they all operate in talking to young women to try and entice them into the cult. I started talking to the girls when I was like 13, 14 years old.” She adds that she had tried to tell people about the alleged cult when she was 16, but “no one took me seriously.”"

So she says he started essentially grooming young women in their early teens, like 13, 14, and 15 years old. She says he had lots and lots of girls involved. I don't know how many, but it sounds like at least a dozen? Maybe dozens? I searched the article carefully for some hint of Vitoria's current age but I can't find it. If she's over 17 now, that means she met him about three years ago. Even if he didn't actually end up having physical contact with them until they were closer to or over 17, how was it that William could do this with so many very young teens and it not become something that raises alarm like, say, Front Porch Step or similar artists who had chatter reported in music blogs, at least lesser-known Tumblr blogs beginning within a year of it first seeming to start?

Please understand I'm not doubting that the stories in this article aren't substantially accurate. These include what one has to say are "credible accounts" -- meaning not necessairly every word is necessairly literable, proveable "truth" but which document to some extent profoundly wrong and apparently criminal acts.

Yes, I know that abuse like this happens, and has happened for ever, I suppose. But the music scene didn't just start getting "woke" with Trump's election and "metoo." She's talking about abuse involving "lots and lots of girls" in their very young teens over at least the last few years. And last year, 2017, William Control was on Warped Tour. I don't know if he played every date but he was confirmed as a national act early on, basically for the tour. I'm not looking to hear "it's not surprising that such an abuser would be on Warped", it's "how was it that this wasn't being talked about in the blogs, on Reddit, etc, in any depth before and during the tour? It seems odd that didn't happen especially with him on the tour and having so much exposure to very young teenage women.

Also, the article quotes William's Tumblr posts going back to 2015 and I suppose earlier with some really disturbing direct quotes. It's remarkable that so much of this is basically out there with no mention even by the alternative and feminist music blogs and writers commenting on it. I know one response to this would be "this sort of thing happens, it's part of the whole system of oppression, etc." But I don't think this can happen without other people in authority, if only in William's management, his label, promoters, and other significant business figures involved. To be clear, I'm not blaming feminist writers, musicians, etc. I'm trying to ask who in authority did know?

C'mon, the Daily Beast article details how William somehow financially exploited these young women to PAYING HIM for his attention and services, anywhere from hundreds of dollars per transaction to claims of five and six figure sums involved. There's a money trail! Even if some of that is exaggeration or inaccurate, there's SOMETHING there to pursue. Follow the money!

I don't think that William likely would have been able to financially exploit minors given how it might be difficult for them to make large online payments, but even for young adults it is remarkable that there would be a "lot" of young adult women who would PAY this guy outright for his attention.

If that happened -- and the Daily Beast article describes verifying transactions where it did happen -- there must be people in authority in music scene businesses with knowledge of this, or maybe who actually helped facilitate it happening.

Who else would have had to have been on that trail of financial, physical, and psychological abuse who would have had knowledge of or maybe even facilitated this kind of exploitation?

 

Again y'all really expect us to read this rambly nonsense.

 

Ignore him/her. All of their 7 posts are defending pieces of shit.

 

Thanks. No, I think that it's obvious a lot of people knew this had been happening for years, so that's not really what I'm asking.

If you haven't read the Daily Beast article, please do so. The article not only describes "many" -- at least a dozen, probably dozens -- of minors and young adult women at least exploited by William, including large financial payments by some of them to him for years, through last year, including presumably while he was on Warped with the exposure it gave him to underage women.

I'm saying it's *certain* there is evidence of wrongdoing and maybe criminal acts. What others in authority had to have known this was going on and maybe further facilitated him? Who else in authority is maybe potentially liable or at least deserving to be "called out" who knew?

 

I'm trying to do my best to see these as constructive, and I don't want to be dismissive of your quest for information, so please don't read my responses as sarcastic or angry. I'm angry at the situation, not at you. As far as I know, there are about 20 girls who consider themselves to have been abused and a part of this cult. Most of them didn't know about the others.

First and foremost, what you have to understand about abusers is that their first goal is to isolate you. They alienate you from your friends and family. They gaslight you to the point where you are questioning your own reality. I have had this happen to me and it is so painful and difficult to grow away from. Once you don't understand the reality of a situation, the abuser can pressure you into doing anything. It may seem hard to believe, but it's true. My friend is the anonymous "Lily" quoted in the article and she didn't know the extent to which William had built up this empire until she was contacted by other girls who had been abused by him.

I'm sure people in authority did know- the same way they knew about so many other abusers and chose to turn a blind eye because money is what matters. When it comes down to it, in every corner of this industry, people are willing to leave these girls in the dark to keep their bottom line intact. Not to mention that these girls in particular are vulnerable, mentally ill, and not the kind of "perfect victim" that society likes to see. People are more likely to be sympathetic towards a blonde girl next door taken in by a jerk musician that a goth girl who outwardly expresses her sexuality.

The Daily Beast has confirmed that the payments happened. They are protecting their sources by not giving you the specific paypal address, but it happened. This is, again, something I have experience- when I was a teenager, my abuser would routinely ask me to send money to him so he could "keep it safe" for me and to monitor how much I was setting aside to visit him in New Jersey. I never did it, but I was close a few times after some very volatile fights.

I would say Kevin Lyman is probably aware of this, much like he's aware of Ronnie Radke and Jake McElfresh. William isn't the most lucrative artist but he has an audience that is desirable to a Hot Topic/Warped Tour etc. industry. I think what you're trying to say is that you want to hold the men responsible accountable- which is admirable. I'm hoping that as more large outlets investigate this, there will be more answers.

 

Thanks Kayla, I'll leave my questions as-is for now, except to clarify I'm not trying to indict any one particular party, like Kevin Lyman of Warped Tour. It's common knowlege that artists get to play on Warped nationally by many business interests, particularly labels and management companies being involved. It's possible Kevin knew of some of this but Warped may have had an obligation to have William on the tour through business / sponsorship / partnership deals. That's not to at all to defend Kevin, only to point out what I think is a fact of the business and how artists get booked to play multiple Warped Tour dates.

I'm not even particularly trying to indict or hold responsible other men - though I suppose it's mostly men involved with William -- I'm saying there is a money trail, and for that matter an easily documented communication trail by electronic messaging. This has been going on for years, ending only maybe a few months or less than a year ago.

There HAD to be others in the management companies, labels, etc involved with William Control who knew about this in detail and maybe even facilitated this. I know what you mean when you say abusers want to isolate you, but many of these relationships that William had weren't in isolation, at least at first -- there had to be others who knew of the relationships and a substantial amount of the exploitation invovled. Whoever knew and did nothing, and especially whoever helped enable this are as worthy of indictment or at least being called out as William, if only because they are in some position of authority and may go on to similarly enable or facilitate others as they did with William.

It should be EASY to look into this. It could just start with asking some of these women who else in Williams' management or business knew of their relationship and exploitation, etc. And one can hardly spend a much time with an artist, especially at concerts, and not have some passing contact with people working for and with the artist involved.

 

I don't always agree with folks on here about stuff but my god, I am thankful to have some faith in humanity restored from people posting in here.

I try not to get outraged by stuff on the Internet too often but Twitter over the past 16 hours or so has never made me so appalled and angry at the same time. I'm actually at a loss.

 

Unfortunately, the police department that was investigating declined to press charges. You’re right in that there is a lot of verifiable information about him being a horrible person. But like many rape and assault cases, evidence doesn’t seem to count. Since there are so many girls, I hope some of them are brave enough to try and press charges in other states. But I could also understand their fear and disappointment with the initial case being dropped.

For now, a small justice is that his wife believes the victims and is leaving him. His career is over, at least according to him. Hopefully he isn’t able to use his platform to find new victims anymore and the ones we know about can find some small peace.

 

Yes, it should be, but most of the time, that investigation just doesn't happen. Potentially related:
Police domestic violence nearly twice average rate
Police Have a Much Bigger Domestic-Abuse Problem Than the NFL Does

 

District attorneys / police departments may not have pressed charges yet, but there's so many possible charges and parties involved that's it's surely possible that some could be pressed.

I'm not even saying so much that I'm surprised or not surprised that no charges have been pressed against "William Control" as I'm saying that others in authority in the music scene, in businesses that William worked with, etc, at least had substantial knowledge or knowingly facilitated him in these exploitative relationships.

Just like an abuser has likely abused before and will go on to abuse others, people who faciliate or -- in cases like this -- maybe even profit from their relationship with abusers have likely facilitated or profited before, and will likely go on to faciliate or profit from other abusers. I think that's as worthy of a story as whatever William has done. Thanks, and that's all from me for now.

 

Where'd you see the part about his wife leaving him? I didn't see that in the daily beast article. Hopefully that makes other people think twice before questioning any of these victims

 

It was posted in this thread a few pages back. She made a public statement about it.

 

The LAST person I thought would have a sensible take on the situation.

 

I'm actually not that surprised considering she's from Oakland and from following her Twitter

 

Why is this not reasonable?

Why are people not allowed to not be happy/celebrate that a. human. died. ?

 

XXXTentacion's Albums and Songs Soar on Amazon, iTunes After Death

"XXX's also dominating on iTunes ... his "SAD!" track from his latest album is currently the no. 1 song. The track "changes" from the same album sits at no. 5. The album skyrocketed to no. 3 overall on the iTunes charts. The album "17" which debuted back in 2017 is also in the top 10 at no. 5."

 

Nevermind. I definitely misread the tone lol

 

I'm looking at Travis Barker's post on IG, the comments on it are awful. Can someone explain to me why people are saying the victim lied in court ? Because I just find it so hard to believe she did. People are being dumb.

 

Because xxx’s fan base is terrible