Accountability in Entertainment • Page 129

i don’t have you blocked. weird thing to say.

i get your larger point. but people use “cancel culture” as a blanket term to include everything from the stupid shit regarding hilary duff this weekend to people like louis ck and woody allen. that is fundamentally a bad faith argument using a boogeyman term for something that does not exist. people trying to go after hilary duff on twitter are idiots and will have no effect on her career. that is not the same thing and has no effect on running someone like matt lauer out of his job for being a serial predator. that seems abundantly obvious but i’m fine with leaving it at that.

 

To be fair Phaynes, I was surprised you replied to me because I thought you had blocked me as well. Lol.

 

hilary duff is not a victim of “cancel culture.” literally nothing happened to her and the idiots on twitter were swatted down instantaneously. using a blanket term like cancel culture to imply that scenario is the same thing as what happened to harvey weinstein is a fundamentally flawed argument. idk. i feel like we’re in agreement about the larger issue at hand here, but i don’t have much need to keep going in circles about this

 

man. my block list has like two people on it lol. wyd.

 

Yep. As a Christian very ingrained in Christian culture, I gotta say, it’s funny how analogous this & that are in certain ways.

 

I just don't consider that "Cancel Culutre". It's not what that phrase is describing 90% of the time it's used in mainstream discourse. It's mainly used as a catch-all term to lump those people in with the people actually doing good work in order to make those good people seem as unreasonable as the "#____isoverparty" people. I get that you aren't using it that way, I understand why you're using it the way you are (a literal culture of people trying to cancel other people) but the phrase itself needs to die because it causes more harm than good, in my opinion. That's all I'm saying when I say that "Cancel Culture" isn't real.

The phrase "Cancel Culture" is used to lump those groups together, which is why I reject it. I never said you or anyone else was doing that. I'm talking about how it's commonly used in mainstream discourse 90% of the time, not the hyper-literal way it's being used here.

 

^Fair enough.

 

basically what i was trying to say in a more coherent manner lol

 

I want to explain myself here bc I don’t see how it’s remotely a weird thing to say when I’ve literally said and asked it multiple times before and always been ignored/never interacted with. (The most recent time being when you came into A1 and I flat out asked did phaynes block me and you ignored it and I was like ok I guess that’s a yes). Just the other day you liked a post I made and I thought “oh I guess he unblocked me” but since you weren’t responding to my posts in here today I assumed you must have blocked me again. I feel like I have actual ample reason to believe that you had/have me blocked but I digress. Obviously not important just explaining where I got that from.

I agree that this is part of the problem though that actual things that deserve accountability (ie woody Allen etc) are lumped in with things like Hillary duff- that’s actually literally what we’re trying to talk about when we say we need to talk about cancel culture because the two are wrongly conflated!! We are literally saying that people lumping Hilary duff in with cancel culture is doing exactly that- using it to diminish real and necessary accountability process for people like Matt lauer.

like I feel like you’re making an argument here against a point that nobody made?

No one is saying that “cancel culture” unequivocally means that the person was actually canceled/fired/etc. it just refers to a very specific nuanced set of movements happening right now, mostly online

 

I generally try to refrain from using the terms and phrases that bad faith actors employ because I refuse to allow my adversaries to frame the discussion in their own terms. Acceptance of a phrase like "cancel culture" in one context can be manipulated into legitimization of its use in other, unintended contexts by bad faith actors. If I say "cancel culture has gone too far, look at all these people on social media trying to cancel Hillary Duff", someone like Louis CK could then come along and say "I agree, cancel culture HAS gone too far. Look what happened to me!" And then I'm stuck arguing about degrees of cancel culture instead of talking about how Louis CK doesn't deserve to have a career anymore.

Who has control over the terms of a discussion is important.

 

I hear you I guess what I reject is the idea that just because it might be used that way by other entities (“mainstream discourse”) I feel (like I’ve already said) that people in circles such as ours, who’s stances on these issues are known, should be able to use the term in a literal sense to describe what we’re talking about without it being dismissed as bad faith. like I already said if there was another term that everyone understand witho it the negative connotation I would easily use that- but we haven’t developed the language for it yet.

 

This also kinda reminds me of conversations about genre, & especially the word “emo” back in the day, though obviously in regards to something way more important, lol. Similar, though, in that it kinda deals w/ semantics, culture, etc.

Like, how many people have to use the phrase “cancel culture” before we accept that it’s officially a term that exists, for better or for worse, & respond accordingly? I try to always put it in scare quotes & thoroughly qualify what I’m saying, but it’s already part of the public lexicon. It’s already a thing.

Talking about the nuances of what people mean by the word & how it’s used, & normalizing better terminology like “accountability,” feels like better praxis to me than pretending the word doesn’t exist or pretending that only evil people use it.

 

like @phaynes12 said, just call them what they are: idiots on twitter lol

As an aside, I also feel like the word "cancelled" is really far too flippant to describe the consequences of the accountability movement (what little consequences there have been, anyway). Like saying "Louis CK was cancelled" or Harvey Weinstein was cancelled" just feels like it's...underselling the severity of what they did and why they're being held to account. But I don't know, it's too widespread now to change it.

 

Yeah, there was no bad faith usage of the term here. At least in the last couple of pages. There probably is an example of what Anthony is talking about somewhere in this thread though.

 

Refraining from using a term so that it doesn’t get weaponized by the other side is completely different from out the gate just flat out saying “cancel culture doesn’t exist”.

we absolutely live in a culture that tries to “cancel” people for their mistakes

the real problem here is that the scope of their mistakes ranges from Qanon rumors, to saying a racial slur 10 years ago, to being an actual predator who has raped someone or many.

yeah they’re currently all lumped in together. The discourse surrounding all of those mistakes is eerily similar and that’s also part of the problem..

 

Yes!! Exactly this

hence why I too keep saying “cancel” or “cancel culture”. Putting it in quotations is for a reason.

 

It’s not my place to say whether what Fallon did was acceptable, so I’m going to stay neutral, but I am curious what people of color here think.

 

I mean I guess. Just makes more sense to use an already established term that describes the situation rather than just dismissing people as idiots.

I too feel like it’s flippant and that’s why we’re putting it in quotation marks

literally the entire concept of cancellation is so fucking nuanced that I can go on for days. there are levels to this shit


I think it’s also a whole other conversation about the way these “cancellations” affect US more than the actual person

 

I gotta up my quotation game then.

 

I had actually forgotten about Fallon doing that Chris Rock impression in full blackface. Like, I remember him doing the voice but I totally blanked on the blackface.

 

i don’t respond to literally every post that mentions me. especially not in A1, where i usually make a post and then unsub immediately bc it blows my notifications up lol. you are not blocked and, to my recollection, have not ever been

 

A lot of people in here didn't live through the 90s and the rise of the right's (and media's) obsession with the phrase politically correct and it shows.

 

Like when you’re looking at the big picture of the United States/world/culture then of course you scoff and say cancel culture doesn’t exist because people rarely face true accountability
Which is true.

but when you have progressive/woke/whatever you want to call them circles (which chorus obviously consists of) who actively do care about that kind of stuff- people absolutely do get “cancelled” from that subsection of culture.

like yeah Chris brown still has a whole ass career and it’s infuriating and maddening
Yet if you’re a feminist/leftist etc if you were to say “I like Chris brown” you would be inundated with people (righteously) being like wtf mate

so like people absolutely get cancelled within subcultures especially ours.
we have a hard time reconciling this with the fact that the greater culture at large didnt deal out any consequences.

I think that unrest is where a lot of this discourse comes from

 

No worries I mean I’m not like mad about it, people are obviously free to block me as they wish hahah just letting you know why I had that impression.

Go on