30 Seconds To Mars Band • Page 22

zero sources = get shamed on chorus and called names for pointing out no actual source exists

secondhand source = of course they didn't do it

 

Jared Leto 'allegedly' having sex with 13/14 year old girls.

this looks like more than zero sources tbh

 

you didn't read it did you? there's zero actual verifiable people in this post. that's why zero actual newspapers have printed it. good job. well done.

 

"I hate to accuse someone of something I didn’t see with my own two eyes. But these stories about Jared have been going around for far too fucking long. When you have different people, on different platforms, all echoing the same things about a person, something in the milk ain’t clean. Where there’s smoke… there’s fire. These rumors aren’t just appearing out of thin air. I’m willing to bet this dude is guilty of everything that’s been said about him and more. "

lol this is credible from an anonymous post but you don't believe someone using their real name accusing someone else of rape gtfo

 

You both should publicly write them off immediately and stop supporting them at all right now. You deserve to be torn down and called out.

 

seriously, what is your goal here? i'm baffled

 

to point out the absurd hypocrisy from some of you that decided to get on your high horse and mock people a few days ago in horrific fashion for this while now defending someone that's been accused of rape

 

Highhorse: "then they should get torn down. A person who has to make excuses or justify their direct support of an abuser is not on my "team." I'm sorry if that's a purist or snobby or whatever thing to say, especially since I'm seeing friends of mine on here liking jason's post, but it's how i feel. you are not on my team if you continue to engage with art made by abusers"

(uh that dude you like is a rapist)

CRICKETS

 

can you tell me why i should trust a statement made by someone who has a very large history of lying?

 

it's not just one anonymous source for leto, it's a bunch. there's no reason not to believe that, while as i've said, nicole is an abusive person that has lied many many times in the past

 

Feel like I need to once again post these exact same quotes. There's a way to have this conversation that could be beneficial and discuss the difference in lines and believing different kinds of sources depending on different circumstances because not everything is black and white (a point I was talking about a few days ago and got a few pretty awful comments thrown my way for saying), etc.

However, this is not the way to do it. This is more of the same kind of grandstanding and it's utterly unhelpful. I'm going to be very quick with the ban if it continues in this way. There's a way to talk about this ... find that or find another place to be a dick.

 

can you tell me why you trust anonymous statements found online that could just as well be be fan fiction? attacking someone's history as a way to silence accusations is fucked up. an anonymous online source could have just as big a history of lying but you don't know the source, so you trust them? if this accusation against cam was made anonymously you'd beleive it more and that is so telling

 

your logic: no reason not to believe anonymous posts but definitely dismiss another accusation and not believe them because i know something about the accusers past

do you not see how backwards this is?

 

right, because the vast majority of anonymous assault claims are truthful. the percentages that those are true will lead me to believe that more often.

however, nicole has shown that she should not be believed, and continues supporting abusers to this day. i believe the percentage that she is telling the truth is less than if an anonymous source was saying that.

 

where's your information that backs up your first statement? that's not something you can state as a fact as it's not verifiable.

so if someone had a very tough life, did bad things lied, maybe even were abusive themselves, they should not believed when they come forward with an accusation? their past mistakes make it so they no longer get the same "believe victims" stance you so easily give to an anonymous and untraceable source?

your hypocrisy seems tied to your desire to attack people and appear better than them as do most of the posters in this thread that still speak with with such certainty about everything and what happened or didn't happen

 

Like, I agree with this person in the sense that the allegations should not be completely written off; however everything else about what they're saying re: Leto and the way they're going about it is really awful.

 

A lot of people that are abusive were previously abused and I've come in contact with lots of victims of abuse who did bad things in their past. People coming out of our disastrous prison system, for example. If there's good reason to believe a person is currently abusive/lying I think that's very much worth pointing out and giving the reasoning and examples, but I really have a hard time with the "this person was once bad so I don't believe them" thing. That just ... feels a little off to me based on my experiences. /2cents

 

it's more than that based on this person's history. this person was a liar for years, abused both their spouse as well as their bandmates and bandmates partners, and even just last month used "restorative justice" as a way to play a show with another accused abuser. there's a lot of context that makes this person unreliable enough to disregard a facebook post that straight up says THIS PERSON IS A RAPIST

now, as i said, i've heard other iffy things about him that aren't this, so if i hear more i'll begin to believe it, but the source here just has such a horrible history that it's hard to take this entirely at face value.

 

I feel like this conversation is bigger and more relevant than either two specific cases being discussed. Y’all are so hung up on the details that you’re not seeing the bigger picture.

 

Like no one needs to explain their logic behind either specific allegation in order to address the concept that accusations and believing are not black and white issues that include a lot of nuance and grey areas

 

Huh? This:

... is their history. I don't know the story, I don't know what went down or whatnot, but I do know that I've met people that have done way worse than that, that were also abused ... and people didn't believe them or thought it was ok to dismiss them because of their past. My comments are mostly related to that and a generalized caution against dismissing someone's claims just because they have a history. If that doesn't apply here, ok. I've read barely anything on the current accusations at this time.

 

yeah, i totally understand that. this is a special case in which i know the history of this person and know enough that while these accusations COULD be true, this person has been unreliable enough that i just can't take it seriously enough right now until i hear more. there really is a lot of history here. but in most cases yes, i absolutely agree with you. this also isn't a firsthand tale, it wasn't this person saying they were abused as well, if it was first person i'd be more likely to beileve as well.

 

Casey I think the point that everyone is trying to make is that regardless of that history, even if you know all about it, an allegation like that should not be so easily dismissed. Slippery slope you're going down by getting into firsthand accounts, we both know that many victims do not feel comfortable coming forward firsthand.

 

1. I apologize for not having a response typed up in 56 minutes, I was on lunch.
2. Let's look at what I said and see how it fits.

At the time of my post in the SN thread or at the time of my post in here was Cam a known abuser? Had any allegations come out against Cam? If there were, then I missed them and that's on me for not being proactive enough and doing my best to make sure I wasn't supporting a known abuser. So correct me if I am wrong, but this wasn't the case for Cam. If I am wrong and there have been allegations against Cam back when I was posting in the SN thread about listening to them, then I should have been called out for it and everyone else in that thread.

You are the first person to not only bring to my attention the fact that Cam now has allegations against him (again, something that is my responsibility ultimately) but to also call me out for it. I am not defending my listening of SN in the face of these allegations nor am I making excuses for Cam or my listening to either of his bands. If I was, then by all means tear me down. But again, this is not the case nor have you given me any chance to act in any sort of way.


An allegation is an allegation and while Nicole is a third party vehicle for the allegation and has their own history of being a known abuser, it's still there and has to be addressed. Again, what did I say?

"Believe the victims unless proven otherwise." I do. Cam issued a statement on twitter saying he contact his previous partners in private and said that those he contacted did not state there was any sort of non-consensual or abusive instances of their relationship. Could he be lying? Yes. There was also a tweet reply from an account saying "you forgot one." That to me is enough sow doubt about the validity of Cam's claim. Could the accusation from Nicole be incorrect? Sure. But, to me, this has not satisfied the "proven otherwise." I don't plan to listen to or buy any SN or OG music or merch until it's sorted out.

So, does that satisfy your bad faith argument?

 

No. Make a powerpoint presentation.