30 Seconds To Mars Band • Page 20

1) They re-signed with Hopeless. Their deal was up.

2) My entire point was saying they were not "comparable" but existed on a continuum of varying degrees for various people. To say I implied they're "comparable" to each other is just false.

 

It is astonishing to me how many people seem to think they have it all figured out and all the answers. It's good to admit you don't know everything and are constantly learning and trying to understand the world you're in better.

Anyway, this is a good article more people should read:

ABOUT a century ago, the famous anarchist Emma Goldman was at a party, dancing her heart out, when a young man took her aside. “With a grave face, as if he were about to announce the death of a dear comrade,” the man told her that “it did not behoove an agitator to dance.” It made the revolutionary movement look bad, he said. Goldman was pissed, and basically told the guy to fuck off. This encounter is thought to be the source of the now famous defense of joy and play often attributed to Goldman: “If I can’t dance, it’s not my revolution.” This wasn’t just about dancing. Goldman insisted that conformity and policing persisted within radical movements themselves, and radicals were expected to put “the Cause” before their own desires.

A century later, while the rules may have changed, something still circulates in many political spaces, movements, and milieus, sapping their power from within. It is the vigilant apprehension of errors and complicities in oneself and others; the sad comfort of sorting unfolding events into dead categories; the pleasure of feeling more radical than others and the fear of not being radical enough; the anxious posturing on social media with the highs of being liked and the lows of being ignored; the suspicion and resentment felt in the presence of something new; the way curiosity feels naive and condescension feels right. We can sense its emergence at certain times, when we feel the need to perform in certain ways, hate the right things, and make the right gestures. We’ve found ourselves on both sides of its puritanical tendencies, as the pure and the corrupt. Above all, it is hostile to difference, curiosity, openness, and experimentation.

The Stifling Air of Rigid Radicalism

 

If your point was to say they were not comparable then it wasn't written in the best way to get that across. The way I read it was that you were saying that ken's support of the wonder years was different in kind, but not in degree, of someone who is supporting moose blood because they are on the same label. either way, they were in some way at some level supporting an abuser, making them comparable.

 

It was literally discussing the differences people have in handling varying degrees of abusive behavior. It was very clear. To some, supporting an abuser and those that enable abusers is the same, to others, they are not. To some giving money to a studio that works with abusers is comparable to giving money to an abuser. To some giving money to a label that enables abusers is the line, to others, it's not. I said this specifically. Multiple times. To make the explicit point that people have various degrees by which they make decisions and it's not one size fits all.

 

no ones doing this, we're trying to have a discussion with you but youre making this weirdly personal, we are also open to learning and understanding things better but dismissing the allegations against Leto isnt exactly a healthy way to have this talk.

ill bookmark that article for later once i get home

 

Yes, they are.

Because what people like and what they support and where and how and how it shifts and changes is personal. It's not black and white and one size fits all. That's my entire point.

I never dismissed the allegations against Leto. Jesus. When people put words into my mouth and flat out lie about things, it makes me extremely angry.

 

It's interesting to note to me, and I think others as well...In the main news article threads it's always a matter of people defending abusers and outright disbelieving allegations but in here it's all people who are collectively agreeing that jared leto and jesse lacey suck and are abusers but arguing over what to do with that information. I do firmly believe that each person has to make that choice for themselves and it would be nice if there could be less judgement passed over what people choose to do with the information.
We are not the abusers. Our actions aren't directly harming anyone. Our actions do offer indirect support. Every action we make all day supports terrible people doing terrible things of varying degrees. Literally all we can do as humans is try to make the best choices in who we support and what "support" means to us (whether monetarily or something deeper than that).
As Jason is saying it's not black and white. If it was a matter of don't support abusers ever we literally wouldn't be able to consume any art or buy anything ever because SOMEONE is getting abused SOMEWHERE along the process. Where that line is is going to vary for everyone.

 

ok thats my bad i didnt mean to say you were dismissing them so relax, just meant the way it seems to have been swept away previously in the thread

i dont really see anyone acting like theyve got it all figured out though? like, its just as fair for someone to come in here and ask why people still support Leto as it is for people to try and justify it right? like yeah i get that personal lines arent black and white but its kind of weird to use "well what about The Beatles and Robert Smith and all these other things though!" as a gotcha thing. it doesnt take away from the pretty alarmingly gross accusations made by several women against Leto yeah? like, calling people dicks and stuff doesnt seem to be a good way to move this conversation forward.

 

yeah i can agree with this for sure. its a "well, what do we do now with this info?" thing. its not fair to judge people on where they draw their line and its not fair to use an artist that someone loves to make them look like a hypocrite which i think we're all guilty of and is just growing pains of the site probably

 

yeah it is something we all struggle with immensely because it's the first time the culture is having to examine itself and hold people accountable for abusive behavior. Like all of the artists of the past you can point out...their fans didn't have to reconcile their morals with the fact that they listened to them. This is a new thing in our culture. and it's a great thing but it's also going to be tough for everyone to confront. A little compassion goes a long way, imo.

 

Not saying this is necessarily what's going on but this shouldn't be a contest to show how woke you are, we've all been imperfect I think

 

these conversations feel that way so often. like there's no room for imperfections. and I'm just as guilty as the rest.

 

It's encouraging to read these last few posts. Nice to see more of a positive dialogue that doesn't become so hostile like it was in here earlier. The vibe on Chorus lately especially has been so toxic and divisive. Sad that today a user got so fed up with it because it's gone too far that he decided to leave the site completely.

 

Relax? Is there anyone alive that reacts well when someone tells them to "relax" or "calm down"? I feel like in this history of the world this has only ended up having the opposite effect. But I digress.

Anyway, they were being discussed, which lead to multiple people talking about how they have a different way of looking at different things depending on the scenario at hand, and then that turned into some form of "not good enough" and hard lines and universality ... which then led us to this discussion.

When people come in and make statements that read like "this is the way you have to do it and everyone not doing it this way is wrong and bad" definitely comes across this way.

No one said differently. How someone asks about it and how someone responds is part of the entire process. How it went down earlier I do not believe was in good faith and it seemed to me was quite a bit more about posturing and picking a fight.

It's not a "gotcha" thing, it's descriptive of the entire situation. If someone is arguing there are clear black and white lines and anyone not on one side of the line is wrong, the best way to show how that line of thinking is flawed is to show the lines they probably have not thought of that they themselves are drawing, crossing, and making decisions based on various variables. The overarching point being that no one should get too preachy about what the "right thing" to do is when handling some of these situations because it's not easy and they, themselves, are making different judgement calls all the time as well based on new information and new education. And to say "just don't support abusers" or "it's so easy" is just not true on its surface as we are all supporting abusers, in some fashion, all the time. Some we know about, some we don't, and other rationalizations that take place constantly. And it's far more beneficial for us all to realize our hypocrisy in these areas and unpack why they exist. But the sort of stuff that was going on in this thread was the opposite of helpful and the opposite of productive dialogue or discussions in good faith of how individuals, individually, process and deal with different scenarios. From where and how accusations occur online to what to do with that information to how do we actually use our voices, or wallets, to voice decisions. The incredulous language of "how could you listen to X" or "support Y" without a real recognition of how much bad shit we also support with various levels of justification, I find extremely off-putting.

I'm still actually curious if he was just trying to be a dick and stick a knife in someone with that sarcastic comment about "lack of a hard line." Because, for the umpteenth time, I think swinging into a thread with that kind of comment is meant to be mean. Saying that people that lack a "hard line" are why abusers still get roles? In a thread with multiple people talking about what their line is and the fluidity that exists? I still think it's a dickish comment that lacks all of the nuance and empathy needed for the conversation that was occuring.

 

I've wanted to post this in so many threads but never thought it would go over well

 

Who does the vocals on remedy?

 

It's Shannon.

 

Listening through this and holy shit they got another girl to speak French on a song, is that a Jared Leto kink or something

 

alright I just finished and I'm in between thinking it's not good and it's ok-ish. I think most of it is pretty uninteresting save for some moments here and there in songs. Remedy not having Jared on it at all is something to note that's kind of neat. Love is Madness has the makings of something but doesn't quite nail it. Hail to the Victor is enjoyable but in a cheap way, if that makes sense.

 

Yeah I think it's not bad, just ehhhhhh. Interesting sounds on some of the songs, but as a whole it's just meh. Still way too much use of "whaaaa oohhh". "Great Wide Open" and "Live Like A Dream" are probably the highlights for me

 

Same thoughts as me, really enjoy those two songs. Also the song with Hasley isn’t bad either. Just feel this would have been better as a Jared Leto/Leto brothers solo project.

 

I haven't listened to this album yet but I legitimately don't understand the album artwork at all. Is there an official version? The version up on Spotify is just a list of random first names.

 

From what I read it consists of multiple lists of things that "make America what it is" and similar to what they did with This Is War with all the different face covers. It's not great.

 

4 songs in and although it's a far cry from the 30STM of old these guys can still write some hooks. It's just wrapped up in a different package these days. Walk on Water would've been huge if only they had written it before Imagine Dragons blew up.

 

It’s a shame because Jared is a strong vocalist, Shannon is a beast on drums and Tomo has proven himself as guitar player but all that is barely present on here. I hold the first three albums dear to me and don’t get me wrong This Is War wasn’t perfect. The chantings were over saturated which brought down some solid songs a bit but I really think they mastered that pop infused arena rock sound they strived for.

Heck even LLF+D has grown on me over the years but I’m just not sold on this sound at all.

It’s weird thinking one of the stand out tracks on the new album is Shannon on vocals with a striped back sound.