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2024 NFL Draft • Page 103

Discussion in 'Sports Forum' started by CarpetElf, Oct 16, 2023.

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  1. Randall Mentzos

    When you hit a mothafucka, you hit that mothafucka Prestigious

    When Doug was calling at least half of the plays with exactly this same situation, he won a home playoff game we were not favored in and had multiple 4th quarter comebacks of 17+ points. We did see glimpses of that ceiling. And then we got complacent and for some reason Doug went back to giving the reins to an OC that already got him fired and was a part of regressing a QBs development once before.
     
  2. Randall Mentzos

    When you hit a mothafucka, you hit that mothafucka Prestigious

    And anyway all of this is tangential to my original point - regardless whether they did or didn’t have the opportunity, the fact is the vast majority of QBs with Trevor’s supporting cast or worse tend to fail, and the vast majority of QBs who didn’t fail tend to have better than Trevor’s supporting cast.

    the Jaguars were still a pretty rough situation to end up in, the team had to rebuild from scratch and had a horrible coach, they fixed the horrible coach but the rebuild has had mixed results because it’s just fucking hard to put together a whole team while also stacking your offense for a young QB. So I maintain that this is Trevor’s floor and lots of QBs come into better starting points than he did.

    So even if you’d rather have Caleb’s potential over current Trevor Lawrence (a fair opinion to have!), it’s worth considering these 3 things:

    1) Lawrence isn’t done developing and he could still be a far cry from how he will be performing in two years (example: Tua)
    2) are we SURE Caleb’s floor isn’t lower than this? Are we positive he wouldn’t be worse than Trevor’s current middle-ground QB ranking in the same scenario, building a team ground up from 1-15 talent and Urban Meyer?
    3) Even if Caleb does go to a better situation and have an excellent start to his career… are we SURE Trevor wouldn’t have done the same thing if his absolute worst case scenario for his rookie year was, Bears with DJ Moore + pick 9?
     
  3. CarpetElf

    chorus's #3 oklahoma city comets fan Prestigious

    Caleb's floor is absolutely lower. He takes sacks at a much higher rate and Trevor fumbles so much it's a meme and Caleb fumble over twice as much in college.
     
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  4. Donnie Ruth

    Prestigious Supporter

    I mean if both were in the same draft and both going to a typical #1 overall situation I’m taking Lawrence > Williams

    There is no doubt Williams is walking into an unusually good situation and will most likely have a better rookie season than Lawrence.

    Feel like contract reset is the biggest perk to this hypothetical question, and I don’t think Williams would fair much better or at all with Urban Meyer
     
  5. MidDave

    Prestigious Supporter

    You simply could not comprehend how much I roll my eyes whenever I read the name “Lawrence.”
     
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  6. GreatBeardRecs

    Prestigious Prestigious

    When I discuss Lawrence your post pretty much sums it up for me.. the ceiling should be higher than has been shown. Ridley, Kirk and Engram are talented guys, as is Etienne. Thats a good enough nucleus for Lawrence to do alot with (or was, insert Gabe Davis for Ridley which is a downgrade, sure).

    It's also on the QB to elevate those WRs... it's easy for me to see because I saw it first hand with a guy in Nico Collins that kinda showed flashes but before last season we didnt even know if he could even be relied upon to be part of the WR rotation... then BAM, Stroud arrives and the guy is getting chances to show his talent because Stroud is finding him all over the field. Nico looks like a stud now. a WR1. His growth is due to his QB (and his hard work obviously).

    I just cant buy the talent excuse, the OC excuse I can consider (to a point)
     
  7. GreatBeardRecs

    Prestigious Prestigious

    Also, Stroud doesnt have a talent excuse anymore either

    I will grade him more harshly going forward
     
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  8. Joe4th

    Memories are nice, but that's all they are. Prestigious

    Feel like it’ll be CB or OL for lions, but Holmes is unpredictable. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if he doesn’t trade up.
     
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  9. whitenblue88

    The rivalry is back on

    It’s the two good options game!

    1) *Lawrence might not be done developing; there’s still a possibility that what we’ve seen is what we get with Lawrence, or that he regresses (due to injury, picking up bad habits, etc)
    2) no of course not, Trevor’s current outcome is pretty solid and “complete draft bust” is the floor; technically Trevor’s floor would still be “complete draft bust” if you’re doing a “take the prospect and drop them in Chicago”, but regardless, I understood the question to be would you take current state Lawrence, knowing what we know about his transition to the NFL, or Caleb, knowing next to nothing about how he’ll actually do
    3) no of course not; noting that it’s possible for CHI to pick a different position (OT?) with 9 or trade out and that you’d be going in with Moore and K.Allen as top threats
     
  10. Randall Mentzos

    When you hit a mothafucka, you hit that mothafucka Prestigious

    I mean, Kirk and Engram were both elevated for damn sure, but not having an X receiver is still rough. Trevor has no one to turn to when the coverage is actually good and/or when the line can’t block long enough for an actual play to develop. Still though, turning a WR3 into 1250 yards and turning a formerly bad TE into a 1000 yard TE are things Trev should get credit for. Feels backhanded to now say “oh those are great weapons Trev should be better” because they absolutely were not great weapons before
     
  11. CarpetElf

    chorus's #3 oklahoma city comets fan Prestigious

    I see a lot of DL. Especially Darius Robinson
     
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  12. JRShoenberger

    there is one way out

    This is hard with Pittsburgh sitting where they are, and so many options probably available to them. As long as they go with some combo of OT, C, and WR in the first 3 rounds, I’ll be happy.

    I’ll submit Talese Fuaga for round 1. Ricky Pearsall round 2.
     
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  13. CarpetElf

    chorus's #3 oklahoma city comets fan Prestigious

    Last and certainly least as far as this experience goes....Linebackers:

    • Roquan Smith, Devin Lloyd, Isaiah Simmons, Payton Wilson, and Leo Chenal
    • Top-15 is all either hits, Jack Campbell, Isaiah Simmons, Devin Bush, and two prospects (Wilson and Edgerrin Cooper)
    • Top 5 Rookies - Payton Wilson, Edgerrin Cooper, Jeremiah Trotter Jr., Edefuan Ulofoshio, and Bo Richter. And now I haven't watched those last two because frankly, I didn't think I needed to so that's what I'll be doing for tomorrow
    • Names that graded high that aren't being talked about as much as they should - Edefuan Ulofoshio, Cedric Gray, Nathaniel Watson, Bo Richter
    • "Day 2" guys that graded out poorly - James Williams, Tommy Eichenberg, Curtis Jacobs, Trevin Wallace
    • I knew this one was gonna look a little weird just because linebackers are both the biggest stad-padding position and they also tend to stay in school longer.
    • Roquan's lead wasn't as big as Derwin's but it was pretty close.
     
  14. Randall Mentzos Apr 20, 2024
    (Last edited: Apr 21, 2024)
    Randall Mentzos

    When you hit a mothafucka, you hit that mothafucka Prestigious

    Watching more Jayden Daniels tape, he scares the heck out of me. I know this sounds crazy but as great as his skillset is he has a couple huge red flags:

    1) do not compare him to Lamar Jackson. Is he a better passer than Jackson was in college, yes. Is he as productive on the ground as Jackson is, yes. But availability is the biggest challenge of being a running QB and I have HUGE questions there.

    My boi Jackson is actually big, and his best skill - above running the ball itself - is knowing how to dodge the brunt of contact and take the hit at an angle that won’t injure him. All his spin and juke moves aside, he uses his agility for the most important thing, staying healthy and not getting killed out there. Lamar does not get enough credit for just how much awareness he has of every player around him, from a pragmatic standpoint that’s really the reason he’s the most productive rushing QB of all time and can actually handle 200-250 carries like a lead RB in a timeshare.

    Jayden can fuckin fly and can juke people out of they shoes, but he is the opposite of those things above. His frame is very slender and he probably didn’t measure at the combine because of it. And, unlike Jackson… Daniels not only takes on contact head on, he is straight up bad at avoiding the hit stick lol. Guy gets 1100 rushing yards but he took so many horrifying pile driving tackles in the process. Even if he wises up and chooses to slide more often, he doesn’t practice the art enough to not get blindsided. That shit is how you get vaporized in the NFL.

    2) Throwing to the sideline almost exclusively and being THAT successful at it is very suspicious to me. That screams “my WRs are elite so I can really throw it wherever I want”. Because while being able to thread the needle to the sideline is a necessary skill in the NFL… that’s because it’s hard as shit and you need to be elite at it to consistently do it. It’s not because that shit’s just open all the time, even if you have sick receivers. I definitely wonder if that’s going to translate.


    ————-

    still think he’s a crazy exciting prospect, and definitely better than the last polarizing running QB Justin Fields, but those two things really set off alarms for me in an otherwise outstanding skillset.
     
  15. CarpetElf

    chorus's #3 oklahoma city comets fan Prestigious

    To be fair he did weigh in and while he's light, he's only like five pounds under Lamar
     
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  16. phaynes12

    https://expertfrowner.bandcamp.com/ Prestigious

    yeah but that was for the combine almost specifically to convince people he isn't as small as he is haha, i'd imagine his playing weight will be closer to 205 and he's two inches taller than lamar

    i'd rather have him than bryce lmao but I get why his size might scare people
     
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  17. MidDave

    Prestigious Supporter

    His size doesn’t scare me. The America’s Funniest Home Video reel of his ludicrous inability to protect himself does lol
     
  18. phaynes12

    https://expertfrowner.bandcamp.com/ Prestigious

    well sure but the hits he takes/subjects himself to wouldn't look so bad if he wasn't a rag doll
     
  19. Dinkleberg

    go birds Prestigious

    In what world had Isaiah Simmons been a hit in the league?
     
  20. CarpetElf

    chorus's #3 oklahoma city comets fan Prestigious

    No no, hits OR
     
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  21. Dinkleberg

    go birds Prestigious

    Got it, my b my b. I was so confused, I was like “WAT”
     
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  22. JoshIsMediocre

    RIP ModJosh (he left) Supporter

    Admittedly showing my ass a bit but didn’t know until just now that Joe Alt’s dad was a 1 time all-pro tackle for KC
     
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  23. Donnie Ruth

    Prestigious Supporter

    BOZO ALERT
     
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  24. JRShoenberger

    there is one way out

    If a former Steelers great had a child in the draft it’s ALL ANYONE WOULD TALK ABOUT around here. See: Joey Porter Jr.
     
  25. GreatBeardRecs

    Prestigious Prestigious

     
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