2023-2024 NFL Season Thread • Page 3662

But also the market 100% doesn't matter for Hall of Fame

 

Small market team treatment is real. The Orioles get way more respect for playing well / their star players get way more recognition / they get way more umpire favor than the Jags or Pelicans do / they get way more nationally televised games, despite not being any more of a successful franchise in the last 35 years lmao

 

That's goalpost moving, this is about players making the Hall of Fame

I'm not gonna ease up on a player because the market they played for was smaller

 

Historic, stable market team: “well Camden Yards is one of the best ballparks in the league, I don’t blame O’s fans for watching even when they suck. It’s a shame their owner doesn’t care / it’s a shame their stud pitcher got hurt right before the playoffs”

small market, non-historic team:
“Lmao Zion washed”
“Lmao fragile Fred”
“He only made ONE pro bowl he musta not been that good”
“jags stadium? No thanks don’t wanna get AIDS in the swimming pool or hear 3 doors down in the amphitheater”

 

kenny pickett

 

If the Orioles drafted Rutschman #1 overall like Lawrence and Zion were drafted and he didn't live up to expectation Orioles would prob be treated the same

A lot of it too is that NFL/NBA fans are MUCH more frequently online. Baseball fans are too busy cuz there's so many games

 

(FWIW I'd probably put Fred in my personal HOF so this is just about the principle)

 

I don’t know Sean posts an awful lot

 

That's cuz the Mets and Yankees don't have to worry about important games anymore

 

I do think larger markets have an edge as far as, a player being more marketable gives them that extra push to get Pro Bowls and whatnot over similarly deserving players

if HOF is partially determined by accolades. Those are popularity contests to various degrees. Maybe not so much All Pro or yearly awards (although you definitely notice famous player A gets more votes when they do win) but definitely pro bowl in general

 

You should at least understand the angle if it's a good one, which it is. It makes sense. There are several positions to address - address it by taking the best player at the best value. IOL is not it.

Mahomes like a week ago. And he beat Lamar on his way to do it. And that guy beat CJ Stroud.

"at his best" is a clever addition there. Yes, obviously a QB performs at his best when you surround him with the most talent lol. The best QBs also overcome those deficiencies though and Cam Robinson is far from the worst tackle a top QB is dealing with rn.

Good news - there is more than one round in the draft and also free agency.

Don't think so.

We obviously need corner depth, that was never in contention. We need better corners period. A 31 year old FA upcoming free agent who has never excelled in press-man probably isn't the best CB2 to have in a conference that you absolutely cannot win without strong secondary play.

WR1 and X are not the same thing. WR1 is the top guy, X is the one that yes, needs physicality, because they're the one lined up directly on the line.

Tyreek Hill is WR1 and not an X. Mike Williams is an X and is not WR1. Bengals alternate but typically Tee is the X, not Ja'Marr. Diontae vs. Pickens, Zay Flowers, Christian Kirk, Rashee Rice, CeeDee Lamb, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Jayden Reed, Chris Olave, Marquise Brown, Cooper Kupp, Deebo Samuel, Tyler Lockett.

The best corners in every class typically go top ten and there's also only two or three of them, not five or six. And the quality of receiver that these guys went up against is also pretty excellent. I don't have my corner sheet done yet but I'll let you know.

 

PFR wants me to compare his performance to Matt Forte and I like that comparison (not between similarities in their specific game but in terms of relative standing among their peers, and weirdly their total yard/TD stats too)

I think fondly of them both as players, they both had good, long but occasionally uneven careers, what-ifs about supporting cast, etc, but aren’t in any conversations I’m having about best RBs of my football watching life

 

The Bears are regarded so poorly that the media has actually pushed the idea that they pass on Caleb because they'll never be good.

The 10th biggest market in the country has lost two teams in the last four years.

The 11th biggest market is called a small market because of how little people care about any of the teams.

Indianapolis is a bigger market than Baltimore also.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with Matt. Just because a WR is your X receiver does not, in any way, make them your WR1 by default. It just likely indicates that that player has the best release off the line to get open quickly or has the physicality to win a contested target. Mike Williams is an excellent example. He has been the Chargers’ X receiver. He is not their WR1.

 

Mahomes got to enjoy some good receivers early on and honestly imma say it. So did CJ
Stroud. You’re seeing the results and with Mahomes he can now pass along those extra coverage/improvising nuances to young receivers, because he’s seen it before with Kelce and Hill and now he’s a veteran who knows how to push his offense to the limut.

Meanwhile Lamar still has mishaps with receivers cause Zay Flowers / Isaiah Likely are the first time he’s even had more than fuckin Mark Andrews to throw to. He’s still learning that stuff. That’s the point I was making if you read - 2-3 years in a luxury offense does more for a QB learning the game than 10 years in a mediocre one. Ask Matthew Stafford or Geno Smith why they had late career resurgences.

no one GOT good in a bad offense is my point. I can’t think of one single example. Even in Stafford’s case you’d say he survived the Lions and even then, uh, Calvin Johnson probably helped??? Meanwhile, a competent offense be making Kirk Cousins good enough to pretend he’s elite sometimes lol.

I’d rather spend later rounds / budget money on a CB who MIGHT be CB1 one day and the first round pick on a WR / blocker who WILL be #1, than the other way around.

Can’t win this conference without blocking pass rush either. We certainly did a fuckin shitty job of that down the stretch. At least Darious is cheap and is the 2, not the main guys on the OL.

most of the guys you listed either aren’t WR1 or are an X lmao

So if there’s so many then what’s the difference between that and supportin Trevor Lawrence with a receiver and getting a bargain CB in the second? Maybe if CB was very thin, okay I’m sold get it while the getting is good. But with this many CBs and this many WRs and Ts to choose from, The only difference is you’re protecting your investment more with the latter, earning a 5th year option at an otherwise very expensive position to make space for Trevor’s contract, and a chance for Trevor to see what an actual X receiver can open up for his offense. You just ain’t gonna find that in round 2.

 

I also think it’s misguided to view WRs through a WR1/2/3 lens. I think it does a disservice to their respective games. There are TONS of good or great WRs who are not X receivers and, therefore are widely considered to not be “WR1s”

see: Tyler Lockett, who actually has shown for years he can win at X, Z, and in the slot. Dude has been awesome for a long time now.

 

Wow. Josh with the L. Hate to see it.

 

Vibes are low, yinz.

 

I mean, getting swept by your biggest rival repeatedly, allowing what was once the worst franchise in the NFL (Detroit) pass you up also in the division and become competitive before you can manage to do so in the 40 years since the Ditka / Payton era, and basically never having a 4000 yard passer will also do that lol

the shitty ones lol.

Okay fair lol, Phoenix is a city of 5 million people and yet it is treated like it’s Jacksonville

Splitting hairs but fine I guess haha. Both are medium sized markets that had enough championship success to earn respect lol

 

LMAO What?

 

Hesnever been the guy that can win when the attention is ON him though. That was Doug Baldwin and then DK Metcalf. That’s what I’m looking for. Teams take away Ridley or Kirk rather easily if they’re trying to frustrate Trevor. We need someone who can rise above that. I hope Ridley can, he’s quick enough to not need to out-physical guys to win, but he’s 30 I’m not holding my breath that we haven’t already seen his ceiling at this point. Most elite quarterbacks only become their truly elite selves after they’ve experienced an offense where everyone is that good and on the same page. Jalen Hurts absolutely became a much better QB when he started throwing to AJ Brown.

 

Receiver, one. He had Tyreek and now he doesn't and is still the best. CJ had Nico, who was good but by no means a QB maker.

If he's having mishaps because of a rookie receiver how is a rookie receiver going to solve that.

Except you can do the reverse and it's more likely that you get day one starters in both. Also, we need a CB2 now, not one day.

Yes, you need talent at multiple positions. Down the stretch? Like...when we lost Cam? And when we had a revolving door at every position but RT and our league worst center? Like I said earlier, you’re saying the entire line is a huge problem yet you saw exactly one game with the entire line.

...that is...not true at all. At best you could eliminate Tyreek and Tee but still, that leaves 10+ guys.

Because WR is far deeper. The corners will be gone by round two. The WRs will not. And we are not drafting a tackle lol. IOL is the part of the line we need to address. And this is an extremely deep class in that regard.

Historically, extremely untrue.

Stefon Diggs – 5th round
Tee Higgins – 2nd
George Pickens – 2nd
Nico Collins – 3rd
Michael Pittman – 2nd
Courtland Sutton – 2nd
Davante Adams – 2nd
Michael Gallup – 3rd
AJ Brown – 2nd
Terry McLaurin – 3rd
Christian Watson – 2nd
Romeo Doubs – 4th
Michael Thomas – 2nd
DK Metcalf – 2nd

 

Have you checked out the demographics of baseball fans? Most can't get online.

 

Yes, and what we're telling you is what you're looking for is not automatically WR1. An X receiver is not automatically the WR1.

 

I think you overrate how often “attention is ON” someone. And Lockett has arguably been a better WR than Metcalf has at this point in their careers, but Lockett just didn’t get the same flash during the draft process or his first few years in the league. Both have been great for the Seahawks though, and so was Baldwin.