2021 NFL Season Thread Football • Page 562

I take Horn over Surtain every time personally haha. Cant explain it, his coverage just looked better and less vulnerable to elite speed threats. He just looked like he was reading footwork and route combinations more to predict/mirror the route and beat the WR to the spot... and relying less on length and recovery speed after the WR already made a cut. Horn was also better at clamping down quickly and coming back to the ball on short hitches and drags, which I love to see - don’t make ANYTHING easy, make sure QBs know that no throw is a safe throw.

Surtain has the mechanics and the body, and doesn’t play with any panic which is great. He’s a good “react to the football” kind of prospect with great instincts at the catch point. But Horn had faster feet, allowed less separation, and had better hand eye coordination. Horn was only slightly smaller (still a big corner, 6’1”, nearly 32” arms), and he measured better in timed athletic drills & had a higher vertical as well.

Surtain very good too but the only scheme i might take him over Horn is a Cover 3 since Surtain has that size to shrink the range of catchable passes to the sideline.

If I’m planning on calling a healthy amount of man to man instead of my scheme being built around a specific zone, Horn is outstanding for that. It’s not only the fact that Horn broke up passes - it’s the fact that his mirroring is so good. He covers guys so tightly and so closely that they rarely even looked open enough to throw to. That’ll make QBs hesitate to even try to “throw the guy open” and beat him with good ball placement.

 

I watched Horn tape back when people were saying he was CB3 (before the Pro Days / before the media acknowledged Farley’s injury concerns) and I was like rubbing my eyes thinking “I’m sorry, maybe I’m missing something but this guy is my #1, there are almost zero mistakes in this tape”

 

the way dave feels about runningbacks is the way I feel about the cornerbacks, if I were a gm I’d never take a corner unless I was picking at the end of the round or they were revis.

 

It’s kind of ironic that fields is gonna be in a darnold type of situation, it’s got to be awkward if you’re a bears fan.

 

I don't disagree but I don't fully agree either. There are a LOT of corner busts but at the same time there are a LOT of corner reaches. I'd rather take a guy in the third that's just average than reach for a guy in the first that is a total liability.

 

I’d take a CB if I was convinced he was legit, but that’s an area I’d prefer to address via trade or free agency if I need a CB1.

 

Yall crazy. CB, T, Pass rusher are all positions where if you need one, and you have an opportunity to get a guy with a high chance of being your #1, you don’t wait.

Teams need 3 of each and yet I would argue there’s maybe 50 good ones of each in the league, that are solid long-term solutions... not even enough for every team to have two. Let alone, maybe only 15 guys who would be a great-to-elite T1, CB1, EDGE1. Those positions are drafted early for a reason.

is it possible to evaluate talent or value poorly, and reach and the guy not actually be that good? Of course, in every position that’s possible. But you shouldn’t let that deter you Imo. Trust your scouting and go get your guy if you really believe he’s a low risk high reward pick. Horn and Surtain both fall in that category.

 

I agree with Randall on this subject.

 

I agree with both

it is harder to find elite CB talent than many other positions and the impact of an elite corner is among the highest non-QB position, which makes it a target with premium draft capital. also, the volatility at the CB position makes it function similarly to RB in that the likelihood of an elite corner on your team still playing like an elite corner 5 years later is low compared to many other positions. It puts it in this weird middle ground for me

 

If there’s a prospect in the first who is clearly head and shoulders above the options in the 2nd round, and I need a CB, sure. I just think that’s more rare than how boards tend to fall. In this draft, Horn and Surtain were my only first rounders.

 

I dont reach due to position ever. And CB is one of the bigger offenders. EDGE might be the worst though. That or OT. I get that that says they're premium positions and I dont deny that but you would assume if those positions are so important people would be more careful with how they draft them.

 

I need to drag the 49ers for a second. I have spent so much time dumping on the Jags for taking Fournette at 4 over Mahomes, I’ve never really taken the time to laugh at the 49ers who chose Brian Hoyer or hoping for Kirk Cousins over trading down with the Bears and STILL getting Mahomes.

 

Everyone always says shit after the fact but I'm inclined to believe the report that Marrone did not want Fournette and wanted Mahomes but was overruled by Coughlin.

 

Yeah, I mean, on one hand they got a 3rd, 4th, and future 4th to do nothing. As draft trades go, that is as fleeced as a team can ever get because the 49ers were still on the clock but for a guy they 1000% didnt want. They then draft Mahomes and we're talking about the Bears taking the biggest L the draft has ever seen.

Also fun, the picks the Bears traded away for Trubisky became Alvin Kamara and Fred Warner (and Tedric Thompson)

 

they also spent TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS to get Lance when like, a 3rd would’ve moved them into position for Fields. Lance is not a sure thing so that was a bad value decision to me even though I love the fit.

 

Idk, I think the Saints trading ALL THEIR PICKS in 1999 for runningback Ricky Williams... and then not even finishing his rookie deal... and then him actually playing better on his new team... THAT was a giant L

the Bears are at least still competing. The Saints blew for years after the Ricky Williams move lol

 

I mean, nobody is perfect at scouting and hardly anybody in the draft is a sure thing. I really don’t think teams say “we have this DT rated way higher but man we need a CB so bad let’s take this guy with tons of problems.” Like, maybe really really bad GMs do that. But I feel like most the time when that’s how we view it, what actually happened is their evaluation was very different than ours... and they legitimately had the CB as one of the top guys on their board.

we didn’t like the Campbell pick because he gave up tons of catches and TDs. For all we know Urban Meyer sees his catch point blunders and thinks “oh that’s easy to coach, I’ve improved guys catch point skills hundreds of times in my career.” In which case Campbell’s rare athletic traits that give him both the ability to mirror sideline routes & to be an aggressive tackler in the slot, made him more valuable than a slightly more polished corner.

If Campbell’s bad then he’s bad but taking him so early is a vote of confidence that his flaws are very coachable, it’s not us consciously sacrificing quality to chase a need. Jags genuinely did value him far above the other corners left on the board.

 

I'm thinking less like Campbell and more like Eli Apple, Damon Arnette, and Artie Burns. Especially because we didn't NEED Campbell.

 

I mean, I get that, but its the trading from #2 to #3 and giving up 3 picks to do it...if the other team walks away with Patrick Mahomes, Alvin Kamara, and Fred Warner...3 1st team All-Pro level players...and it didnt even change who they were gonna pick...that almost feels worse than the Saints move. Like they played you to get you to move AND dunked on you with your own picks.

The Saints also couldnt trade a 2nd rounder in 1999 because they used it to get Eddie Kennison, who they traded away for a 5th rounder a year later...so, they could have gotten Ricky Williams at 12 and probably still been atrocious.

 

Remember, somehow the bears forced the giants and bucs into those awful cornerback picks lol

 

Wonder how long it’ll take for me to stop being a curmudgeon about the jersey numbers

 

TE2 behind Tebow.

 

Tebow QB1
Tyson TE1