2019-2020 NFL Season Thread [ARCHIVED] Football • Page 1131

@CarpetElf we have different criteria for that obviously then man. I’ve told you time and time again that in game context matters to me more overall than raw stats

 

not quite how trades work

 

A QB who was carrying his team has a stronger legacy in my eyes. Not saying everyone has to look at it like that.

 

No you just aren't understanding what Dino/Troy means haha.

Like, you're a better guitarist than Mark Hoppus by every metric but in no way whatsoever can you say you've had a better career just because you're a better player.

 

I fully back this.

 

I guess but like the mid 1990s Cowboys were dominant on both sides of the ball. Y’all had like 8 hall of famers and Aikman was the least impressive / least rare talent of all of them

Like, I’m not convinced worse QBs couldn’t win super bowls with Emmitt Smith, the Great Wall of Dallas, Irvin / Novacek, Charles Haley, Greg Ellis, Deion Sanders etc etc

 

Aikman averaged a passer rating of 111 in those three playoff runs when the average passer rating for that time period was roughly 80.

He was unquestionably elite and paramount to all three of those rings.

 

The team giving up the player decides how the trades work lmao. And if I’m the Jaguars I am so reluctant to trade Ramsey that I still don’t accept that deal. Even if it’s a fair offer it’s just not gonna give us enough to keep our overall team talent as high as it is with Ramsey.

 

I know what you’re saying, I just completely disagree.

 

“Almost any QB could win 3 rings in 4 years even though only three other quarterbacks have ever done that in NFL history.”

Cmon

 

Did Oakland get Khalil Mack talent for their trade? Nah. Was it bad value though? Also nah.

 

"Even though we're strictly talking about an individual's achievements, I'm going to insist on ignoring that and instead bringing up every other member of the team."

 

Like, even Staubach, the most talented quarterback in our history, went to FIVE Super Bowls but could “only” win two of them. And that’s with one of the greatest coaches in NFL history and one of the best defenses ever.

I’m aware Aikman wasn’t as good as his contemporaries but what he accomplished was absolutely impressive and Hall of Fame worthy.

 

I get that but that’s an extreme example

When two QBs are both highly accomplished I’m taking the guy who did it with less help. 3 superbowls versus 1 can be every bit as circumstantial as it is a sign of that player’s greatness. Imo John Elway did not have a better career than Steve Young despite more credentials.

i did not say “almost any” I’m just saying he had a path of less resistance than a good portion of QBs who do it, so that factors in for me. It doesn’t take credit away at all but when I’m comparing two great careers I value the ones who took on more challenges and responsibility.

Most impressive win was against the 49ers cause they were like the Patriots of the time.

 

You said “worse” QB’s could win multiple rings with that team, so I characterized that as “almost any”, so that’s on me.

My point still stands though.

 

It's not an extreme example. It's literally the exact same example. It's comparing the achievements of one person versus the other. If you're saying Mahomes will win multiple Super Bowls and get a SB MVP then yeah, I agree with that. But bringing up their respective teams is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

To judge individual achievements we should be looking more at how QBs did when they DIDNT have top supporting casts cause then we at least have a frame of reference how much of it was them elevating their surroundings.

 

We're literally talking about the accolades these people have. If Mahomes wins zero super bowls, it doesn't matter if he had a worse team around him - he still did not acquire the success that Aikman did so on an individual level, while Mahomes is by far the better player, Aikman had the better career.

 

It’s not the exact same example what the fuck lol. No, comparing me
to the most famous punk guitarist of our time is not the same as comparing Aikman to other 90s greats that didn’t play on as good of teams

 

....but we aren't comparing them to other 90s greats lol. The discussion is Aikman's career versus Mahomes.

 

Randall would say MJ is better than Lebron and still somehow fail to understand what Dino and I are trying to explain.

 

Right, I accept that, but I just think I don’t like analyzing players that way. I take Brees over Roethlisberger every single season despite Roethlisberger’s “better career” / “more accolades” because that definitely just comes down to the Steelers being a more complete team for most if not nearly all of that time. He can have the “better career” I guess but Brees could easily have the same number of Super Bowl wins if the Saints ever gave him a defense.

 

okay so you DO understand, you just are arguing for the sake of it? haha. Like, yeah, we're talking about the better career, not better player haha.

 

I am arguing because I think this is a limited scope of the whole story when we are comparing players.

 

Troy Aikman sucks