2016-2017 NFL Season Thread [Archived] Football • Page 119

Most combined TDs for a rookie in NFL history
Most combined yards for a rookie in NFL history
First (and only) rookie to pass for 4k yards and rush for 700 yards in a season
First rookie to pass for 400+ yards in back to back games (did it in his first two)
2nd player with 7,500 passing yards and 40+ passing TDs in first two seasons
Most rushing TDs by a QB in NFL history
Most games with a pass TD and a rush TD in NFL history
Most combined yards in a players first five seasons
First QB (and 5th player at any position) with at least 500 rushing yards, 5 rushing TDs and 4.8 ypc in 5 consecutive seasons
First player with 100+ passing TDs and 25+ rushing TDs in first 5 seasons
First player with multiple seasons of 20+ passing TDs and 10+ rushing TDs
First player to have at least 3k passing yards and 500 rushing yards in 5 consecutive seasons
2nd most 5 TD games in a season (3)
3rd QB to pass for over 3K yards in each of his first 5 seasons

"needs to be more consistent"

 

Maybe a bit biased because I like the Steelers. But Cam needs more league experience to be on that level. Roethly just has that winning spirit and leadership ability that makes the team around him perform well.

Elevating Ted Ginn to a solid target is one thing, elevating 6th round pick Antonio Brown to the best receiver in the league is another. Brown was gonna be good no matter what but he knows how to apply his talent so well because Ben has so much experience with attacking elite defenses, both from his postseason success and the AFC north usually being very tough on that side of the ball, and you can see how that opened Brown up to so many gameplan techniques and strategies to get himself open. He tends to get open at the last second too, hinting that chemistry with Ben and knowing each others next move is a big part of their success. Martavis Bryant opened some eyes but you are kidding yourself if you think he gets the safeties looking elsewhere on so many deep bombs with a 25-26 year old QB who is still learning the league.

After Pittsburgh's defense, which defined the team during Ben's young years, totally imploded, they still kept winning for a reason (in fact this is when Ben elevated his own play and you started seeing more 4k seasons) and we haven't seen Cam have to deal with anything like that yet.

 

I don't particularly like Cam Newton, but I recognize he's among the best QBs. Not sure why ESPN can't make that distinction as well (or preferably not show these biases at all)

 

You do know that most of those stats prove that point. His rookie year was incredible. Last year was incredible. The 3 years in between...still solid, but, inconsistent. His baseline is 3000yds, 500rushing, a little less than 20TDs

2012 and 2014 dont match 2011 and 2015, and its not really close. In 2014 he had nearly as many turnovers as TDs. Then in 2015 he has 3x as many TDs as turnovers. The difference between those years? I could argue he had less talent in 2015...

I say that all expecting him to be league MVP again. Cause that 5th year is when most QBs turn the corner.

 

Sanchez at 31...Good work Elway.


Jesus.

 

But he had a much improved OL in 2015. The OL during his less impressive seasons was abysmal. Combine that with little talent around him. He also had a change at offensive coordinator which was a big deal. Chud to Shula was a big transition for the entire offense.

Regardless, he's been a threat over his entire career. There hasn't been a time where he wasn't the focus of the opposing team's game plan.

 

I wouldn't say Cam isn't consistent. He's consistently improved since his first year. But he needs to show more years OF consistency and experience even more things the league can throw at him to truly be elite. There's a reason all the tier 1 QBs in any given era tend to be 30 or older before people truly see them that way.

Its just to weed out the QBs that rode high for a few years but then couldn't do shit when major roster changes took place. Like I could have called Mark Brunell a top tier QB after he beat Elway, Marino, and Kelly in the playoffs and made the AFC championship twice, he had some of the best stats in the league in the late 90s, but it became clear he was never elite the minute the Jags roster went south, he wasnt good on the Redskins either.

Elite QBs are what make any roster look great and will find success no matter who is on their team. There's no way to even know yet if Cam is THAT good.

 

The shifting coordinators is a good point. And there is no doubt he's a threat.

To me, what I see as inconsistency in his first 4 years is what makes him scary. Look at what Eli did when he turned the corner in year 5, he rattled off 4 of 5 Pro-Bowl level seasons after being a mid-tier guy...now imagine it with Cam, dual-threat nightmare who is already at a high level. Dude might be unstoppable for the next 4-5 years.

 

I guess my point is, when you look at his career as whole, we've never really seen anything like him. His stats are stupid. Break it down season by season and yes, you can see inconsistencies. But there a lot of factors in that. But looking at his whole career, his team has won their division 3 of his first 5 seasons and he's put up ridiculous numbers.

I hope you're right about his next handful of seasons. With Kelvin coming back and Funchess showing big signs of improvement I think this season could be even bigger for him than last. I'm also terrified we go 7-9.

But like I said, the actual list doesn't bother me. I think those are the top 4 QBs in the league. Everyone is going to have them shuffled differently. What bothered me was that the whole write-up about him was negative despite him just winning the MVP. No mention of how dominant he was. They even tossed in the SB press conference 'incident" like it even matters.

 

Theres good quarterbacks and bad quarterbacks and then there are some that are in the middle. Its annoying to rank all those guys.

 

What a terrible quote. And ESPN chose that for their article.

 

Except for maybe the fact that he's made this roster look great and led a team devoid of receiving talent and a RB1 with comparable if not inferior performances to a SB and two games shy of an undefeated season?

 

On a different topic, why are the Chargers willing to lose their #3 overall pick over a very minor issue?

 

sheesh

 

Because they're dumb

 

That's actually not bad when you consider Kaepernick, Cousins, Tannehill, Flacco, Cutler, Bradford and Osweiler make more a year than that.

And he makes less than every Jets and Ravens QB right now and that must be horrible.

 

Yeesh. Even with Skip gone they still run with that trash...

Yeah, his 2015 season is without a doubt one of the most impressive single season performances in the history of the sport.

If we had the old forum, Im sure I could find a half dozen posts where I said the Panthers were fucked and Cam would die. I sure as hell didnt see 15-1 out of that.

 

I definitely didn't either. After they went 5-0 I spent pretty much every week going "this has to be the one where they lose." Still can't believe they pulled that off.

 

The 2015 roster was great. Literally the only thing it doesn't have is receivers. The O line bounced back in a big way. Defense elite at every level. Stewart has proven by now he is a RB1 in the modern sense - no he's not Todd Gurley or AP but he handles the majority of first and second down work with efficiency, performs well in the red zone, wears defenses down with physicality and stamina. He's a better version of Chris Ivory last season. And Greg Olsen is still a pretty solid #1 target (though not great by any stretch.)

If you watch the Panthers last year yeah Cam was a huge part of it not denying that. But their domination was across the board. The only one on one's they didn't consistently win is wideouts on opposing corners. Everywhere else the Panther player dominated the player across from.him more often than not.

This season they lost Josh Norman but now have Benjamin back and Funchess coming along so I still wouldn't say the roster is by any means a deficient one. The Panthers would probably still go .500 with Brian Hoyer.

 

GOAT

 

Hoyer went, what, 3-4 starting with a healthy defense? Add in Indy where he played a majority and call it 3-5. Cam won games without KB and without Kuechly for games which is close to the equivalent to Hoyer leading a team without JJ Watt. I think the Panthers are certainly a good roster, but that feels like a stretch haha.

 

I'll make the bold prediction that Mark Sanchez has a decent season. 3300 yards 23 TD 17 INT

 

Oh haha at that point I was talking about the Panthers in 2016 with Kelvin Benjamin. I don't think the roster was any lower than like 8th or 9th in the league in terms of overall talent last year and certainly don't think it will be this year.

 

Okay that makes more sense hahaha

 

Those would be career numbers, basically, for him (3474yds, 26TD, 18INT is his best ever).

Actually, based just off his numbers in Philly in 2014, he did better in the same stretch of games than Brock did (+2% completion, +4-500yds, etc). So, its not insane to think he could put up 60%, 3500yds, and something like 25/15. If for nothing else than a great OL, great WRs, and a group of RBs that should be good.

He could also not start Week 1 and lose to something named Trevor Siemian