‘Ryan Adams Dangled Success. Women Say They Paid a Price.’ • Page 4

And furthermore that Motion Sickness is about him. Crazy, she went on record in the Rolling Stone article about it.

 

You don’t need to throw it all away. Please don’t. Like I’ve said earlier, what music means to you should not be defined by those who make it.

 

People explained why this is problematic in the other thread. Why feel the need to double down and tell someone to just let it go?

 

Feels presumptuous to tell someone not to give up an artist if they're thinking about it. Let ppl work thru it and decide for themselves how they wanna deal.

 

You were exaggerating, and I pointed out your statement as being over exaggerated. I wish all the F you’s I got were hyperbole. Thanks for the clarification Craig. Appreciate it.

 

Because I feel that strongly about my message. I need to make sure he's on my side.

This entire situation is taking an extremely negative toll on my mental health so I'm logging off for the night. Honestly, on the musical totem pole, Ryan Adams doesn't rank that high for me. The only reason I need to make sure people still listen to him is because he made one of my few 5/5 songs (which I only have around 40 of). As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I wish it had been Bryan Adams instead – that's someone whose musical catalog is garbage.

 

I think that poster is asking for feedback? They said “How do you guys deal with this stuff, as a fan?”.

Maybe I misread that though.

 

wtf

 

time for some threadbans

 

What the fuck is happening here

 

there’s so much fucking music on this earth to build connections with. don’t hold onto music made by abusers for wishy washy reasons. this man wasn’t the end all be all of music and you shouldn’t let him be. throw his shit in the garbage and fall in love with other music. I promise you will never run out of music to love even if you stop listening to abusers!

 

woof

 

I didn't interpret that comment as feedback. They had this long derailing argument about this in the accountability thread so I guess I'm not rly giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

When my ex girlfriend broke up with me she took the Ryan Adams records I bought her out of the collection. Hope she's enjoying those.

Very petty.

Also this dude sucks.

 

I haven’t seen that thread, but I read
It as looking for feedback.

 

I feel like you're generalizing hyperbole here. Is that fair?

 

Dude, just take the fucking hint and bid us goodbye. This isn't the time and place (if there even is one, which I doubt) and no one wants to discuss this shit with you at all.

 

But most importantly, fuck this chode.

 

I had a very productive and respectful conversation with whoever runs the twitter account of a small band via DMs today when they vocalized concern about the use of "men are trash". It ended with them thanking me for my willingness to engage with them and with them considering a point of view they hadn't before. I'm going to post that transcript with their identity redacted BECAUSE THEY HANDLED THIS THE RIGHT DAMN WAY for educational purposes. I've removed multiple message breaks for simplicity.

Me: So okay: I'll preface this by saying I understand completely where the impulse to feel like toxic masculinity and things like "men are trash" are the same. At face value, they would be. But context is SO key when it comes to these conversations, because when we're talking about social issues and systemic imbalance and everything, they're so naturally emotionally charged that there's no such thing as objectivity or impartiality to begin with. They're inherently subjective based on our experience and point of view. With that in mind...

Them: (I stan your sentence structure in the above message - continue)

Me: When someone says "men are trash", nine times out of ten (just because with all extreme viewpoints, SOMEBODY out there is probably being literal and I'll acknowledge that) the person saying it has men in their life that they love and respect, men who are working hard and are "good". (I have feelings about the terms good and bad anyway, they're kind of useless, but that's another story.) They don't mean "all men are trash", and the reality is men who don't subscribe to toxic masculinity and have listened to these conversations pick up on that. They understand that "men are trash" isn't an attack on men who aren't trash. It's just about being frustrated and frankly terrified because every time one of these stories comes out, it just reinforces how OFTEN women have to deal with things like this. Plus, the blowback, apologists, people defending the abuser... you get it. It's a lot, and so instead of being nuanced and careful and precise, people say "men are trash". Is it nice? No. Is it helpful? Probably not. And while it can certainly contribute to men who embody toxic masculinity lashing out or saying "see there's no point, feminism is bad and it's lose lose", the reality is it simply doesn't have the same social impact the way that toxic masculinity does simply because the people saying it don't have power. That was a LOT so I apologize if my sentences meandered too much or if anything got lost. So while it's definitely rude, it just doesn't carry the same weight as toxic masculinity. That's the summary, I probably didn't need to use as many words as I did to say that but... here we are.

Them: OK so I totally, totally get that a large portion of people who say “men are trash” actually have loving, caring men in their lives who aren’t pieces of shit. But what makes it seem imbalanced is that if I were to tweet that, with loving, caring women in my life (my wife + daughter included) I would be totally fucking cancelled.

Me: Right. And I'm not saying it seems fair, but the difference is social impact/implications/power balances.

Them: (Opposite gender contextually) TOTALLY, and I get that

Me: No I get what you're saying. I even thought about that when I was typing the example. But I ultimately went with it because I think that the discomfort of how obvious that comparison is helps to illustrate the point.

Them: But if we’re working to mitigate the imbalance, as anyone with a proper head on their shoulders is, does that not (in and of itself) perpetuate an imbalance to some degree?

Me: Sure it does, and the further we get down this rabbit hole the more I firmly believe the frustrated expressions will lessen. For now, to me... it's like, I'm a woc but I'm very light-skinned and I'm also not Black. There are a whole bunch of learned instincts, fear, and rage that go with living as a member of a subjugated group. So a lesson I had to learn when I was starting to do this work as a member of a relatively privileged one was how to not take it personally when someone said something I considered mean, that on it's face might perpetuate the imbalance. In the early days of correcting an imbalance, I think you just have to let people be mad for awhile. It's natural and something that we're seeing a lot of because historically, there hasn't been any kind of unified public venue for it. And on a more literal front, it's just relatively small potatoes compared to the severe damage being done in other areas. So while I agree it sucks, I'm just saying it's the kind of thing that should be approached with empathy instead of pure logic.

Them: I really, really appreciate your input and your perspective.

Me: Like, "why does this person feel this way" is something I've asked myself a lot when I see someone in a subjugated group [I'm not part of] say something that hurts my feelings and I've usually learned from it, even if I walk away still thinking they could've handled it better. It's not my place. That's humanity, and that's okay.

Them: You articulate everything so honestly and accurately that it genuinely helps me gain a better understanding of perspectives I don’t grasp and find off putting.

 

I am so angry right now

 

Respected musicians and famous people have been slimy for years. Elvis was the ultimate pedophile nobody talks about. Chuck Berry used to secretly film women sitting on toilets. Pete Townshend looks at child porn.

I'm not saying Ryan Adams shouldn't be destroyed right now though. Not sure what I'm saying. I hate everything.

 

Good riddance to this scumbag.

Long live Mandy Moore.