‘Nondescript Pop Punk Band Dropkicks a Girl Off Stage’ • Page 15

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    And that's fine, but if a marginalized group of people are offended by the lyrics to a song or find issues with them, your opinion is kind've irrelevant to the discussion. If you belong to that marginalized group, you're entitled to your own opinion but should also listen to the voices of others.
     
    Mokena likes this.
  2. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I'm not sure, I don't follow the band or their lyrics
     
  3. _unproductive

    Regular

    this lyric shows that he treats women like objects, and he is mad that he can't have the one he wants. The ones that are in his bed are just placeholders that fill a void to him.
     
    Petit nain des Îles likes this.
  4. _unproductive Apr 15, 2016
    (Last edited: Apr 15, 2016)
    _unproductive

    Regular

    the entire song "Daughters" is problematic. The lyrics take a view point of him at a party seeing a girl that is drunk getting busy with other men at the party (i really don't know how to phrase this without using words i dont want to use), who he deems to be a slut that doesn't respect herself... its a pretty disgusting song.
     
    Petit nain des Îles likes this.
  5. TotesAndGoats

    Bear

    I think it's really dangerous to play "what lyrics are and aren't offensive" in a forum dedicated to a group of genre's that almost entirely deal with the subject of relationships.

    It doesn't take long to find lyrics by almost every "popular" band on this website that deal with fantasy, idolization, pursuit, and in some cases stalking or taking extreme measures for attention.
     
  6. iamfirebreather

    The revolution was a lie.

    Ok, I can get behind this. You really said what I was thinking as far as the reporting not being the best practice. I just feel like that's the easy thing to write about, but you are right, if it ties into the situation then it has to be told. The idea that you would dick over your fans like that is in fact terrible and just goes to show they literally don't care about them.

    It just seems like other bands have had similar lyrics and nothing has ever been said about them. I'm not trying to defend a band that I don't listen to, I just know that just like everyone else, we've all listened to our fair share of pop punk and these lyrics don't really seem that far off from other bands that we all hail.
     
  7. rst

    Regular

    The person who is offended is named Joe so i don't think he's part of the marginalized group. Are people in the marginalized group offended by this lyric? Do you still think this lyric is misogynistic?

    People can have sex with each other because they just want to have sex, there doesnt need to be anything more. Why would it matter if those women were "just placeholders" as long as they consented to having sex with him. He isn't forcing any of the women who dont want him to have sex with him, so i dont find this to be a problem.

    I think that is one of the two songs always brought up from a past record, I was asking if there were lyrics on the newest album as a reason why people still think he writes misogynistic music. Clearly the guy is an asshole for assaulting fans, jsut trying to see what's so bad about the newest record, i have no desire to listen to it.
     
    Xardra likes this.
  8. supernovagirl

    Poetic and noble land mermaid


    I thought so. I just don't understand how the same person could do both things. It's a strange disconnect. First you're protecting your fans then you're the one hurting them??
     
  9. Timmiluvs

    I play video games fast -- @Timmiluvs Prestigious

    This is an awful argument. There are plenty of ways to write a song about a relationship that doesn't involve offensive lyrics. Many, many artists have written plenty of songs about that topic without going into the word choices of bands like TSSF. There is no reason to write lyrics that shame women or treat them like objects or other disgusting things just for the purpose of writing a song about a relationship. And that first statement is also troublesome in that it seems like you're trying to excuse these lyrics as being okay because "it's a punk band". If that's not what you're implying I apologize, but that's what I gathered from that.

    As for other bands having lyrics that have issues, you're correct. And those bands are criticized in exactly the same way (people rip FOB for lyrics on TTTYG) or in some cases the bands/writers have apologized for their lyrics written when they were younger and ignorant (I think it was Anthony from Bayside who did this a couple years ago). The point being, a lot of bands have moved on from that or apologized and acknowledged what they did was awful. TSSF on the other hand has done neither - they still play those awful songs every night on tour, they haven't owned up to mistakes or made any attempt to show that they've matured as people.
     
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  10. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I'm sorry, what? The conversation about TSSF's lyrics has been taking place for years on this site by plenty of female posters so I'm not sure what you're getting at
     
    Petit nain des Îles likes this.
  11. rst

    Regular

    Besides Bayside, i cant think of many bands addressing it but im sure there are some. Pete Wentz was 23 dating a 15 year old (aka statutory rape) and wrote those misogynistic TTTYG lyrics about her. As far as im aware he's never apologized or addressed it. I think Hayley Williams addressed Misery Business but every show as one of the biggest rock bands in the world she still gets on stage and sings "people never change once a whore you're nothing more im sorry, thatll never change." I guess the question is what do people want? Should a band address their problematic lyrics and continue on or should even more be done in live settings and lyrics changed? Im not sure there is a correct answer.

    Ok, posters said Parker STILL writes misogynist lyrics on the newest record. Another poster said he wasnt aware of them and asked for an example which was , "These days I tend to see red 'Cause all the women swimming in my head Are not the same ones laying in my bed But I do my best to ignore it." In response to these lyrics this person said...
    Then you said...
    The only lyrics being discussed were the ones in quotes above, no one is disputing that lyrics from past records are sexist. The two people who are claiming these lyrics are misogynistic are named Josh and Joe so i dont think they are part of the marginalized group. So i asked if you still think these lyrics are misogynistic, and if any women think they are misogynistic. I didnt view them as misogynistic when i read them. I also asked if there were other lyrics on the newest record that people find problematic.
     
  12. Timmiluvs

    I play video games fast -- @Timmiluvs Prestigious

    All of the situations, songs, and people you've mentioned have been heavily panned by people for a long time. All of those situations have received their fair form of criticism. As for how people want bands to respond in these kind of situations, that's not for me to answer as I am not a part of the marginalized group directly affected in a lot of these cases, so I won't attempt to say what kind of response they should seek.
     
  13. _unproductive

    Regular

    I didn't say I was offended, but I understand why a women would be.

    I don't understand why you are attempting to make excuses for this guy? Did you bother to read any part of this thread before commenting? If you did, you would see women posting about their issues with him and his lyrical content.
     
  14. _unproductive

    Regular

    literally the entire S/T album is about a girl he hates... did rst even bother reading any of his lyrics before posting?
     
  15. Jason Detroit

    [Paranoia Intensifies]

    I have friends who love TSSF unabashedly, and apparently they're not alone based on the response from a lot of fans on social media and even the girl herself. That being said, I found it hard to listen to the new album specifically because of the lyrics, not so much for being misogynistic (though that still exists) but also because it's nothing new, Parker has been writing about the same thing for three albums now and it's honestly really boring. It's also a bummer because musically that was the best album they've put out in my opinion, but the strives the band made are overshadowed by the continuous cycle of Parker not having anything to write about but girls doing him wrong. After three records maybe the problem isn't the girls, man. Maybe it's you.
     
    popdisaster00 likes this.
  16. _unproductive

    Regular

    I have no problem with a break up record, but he constantly defaults to this generic image of manipulative evil women and never owns up to his own issues... looking bigger picture, this is a learned behavior taught to men.... *thats the reason it is problematic*

    this is just off topic now..


    I say all of this as someone who used to really like this band. I grew older, and became more educated to the point that I can't support a band that has this narrative.
     
    Petit nain des Îles likes this.
  17. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I don't really understand the point of this conversation. As I've stated, this conversation regarding the lyrics of TSSF has taken place multiple times, in multiple places, and each time women have spoken out against the various lyrics of the band. I was not the one who posted the original lyrics, I merely attempted to explain why they might be problematic. My opinion on the matter doesn't really matter and I can't speak for any other women aside from, for the third time now, telling you that there have been conversations about TSSF in which women felt uncomfortable with the lyrics.
     
  18. TotesAndGoats

    Bear

    This went off the rails a long time ago.
     
    Jason Detroit and _unproductive like this.
  19. rst

    Regular

    FUCK PARKER im not making excuses im having a conversation. i dont listen to his band, i know that his early albums have had problematic lyrics. NO ONE IS DISPUTING THAT. The conversation im asking about has to do with the NEWEST album which lyrics YOU posted. How do people not get this, a poster asked you to give an example of his recent lyrics and you answered with these lyrics which have been the point of discussion.
    "These days I tend to see red
    'Cause all the women swimming in my head
    Are not the same ones laying in my bed
    But I do my best to ignore it"


    I read the lyrics YOU posted. I dont know any lyrics off of the newest album because i think his band sucks and he sucks so no i dont know any of them. I can still be objective however, even if i dislike him.

    You said this about the song..
    THAT is problematic. Youre equating women to objects and "placeholders" because they are having sex with him and he wants nothing more. Newsflash, people often have sex because they like having sex there doesnt need to be anything more. Sex can be used as a metaphor for love but it isnt a synonym.
    This isnt the 1950s, men and women can fuck each other to the cows come home as long as its consensual. Having sex with someone doesnt entitled either person to anything more. Have all the men and women in here only had sex with people they are in love with?

    See above, NO ONE IS DISPUTING he wrote sexist lyrics on early records and women have many problems with them. In response to a post about the terrible lyrics on teh most recent album another poster wasnt aware and asked for example. The conversation ive been having only deals with those that were posted twice by 2 men and then another man (you) explaining how they could be misogynistic. So for the third time, thank you for originally posting why those lyrics are misogynistic on behalf of women even though your opinion apparently doesnt matter and you cant speak for other women. Do you see how ridiculous youre being trying to be on both sides. Im not sure if youre deliberately trying to do this or what. You explain something as misogynistic then when asked about it you suddenly cant answer because youre a man...ok.
    How? The original link talks about his past problematic lyrics. I'm trying to have a conversation about possible recent problematic lyrics but suddenly all the guys in here cant speak on behalf of women, thats a first for me.

    So one more time, FUCK Parker and his music. Thinking 4 lines out of his shitty/problematic catalogue does NOT mean im defending him as a person or artist, jesus christ. If anyone wants to actually have a real conversation about his lyrics thatd be cool. Id love to get a women's perspective on the lyrics bolded in this post.
     
    monkeytarget likes this.
  20. @rst Please take it down just a notch here ... this is getting a little too hostile for my liking.
     
    Aaron Mook and Jason Detroit like this.
  21. _unproductive Apr 15, 2016
    (Last edited: Apr 15, 2016)
    _unproductive

    Regular

    you are filling in gaps to suit your own argument... you can't possible know the intent of a hypothetical women in a song... yet we have his lyrics that clue us into his intent and his thoughts
     
  22. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    I can answer, I find it misogynistic. Are you finished?
     
  23. rst

    Regular

    Sorry, im honestly not trying to be hostile and was trying to repeat myself like that when i thought people were willfully trying to ignore the actual lyrics being discussed.
    100% agreed, you cant know the intent of the song so i dont understand how you call it misogynistic. You said he was using the women like objects making those lyrics misogynistic. The only way i see him being in the wrong in what youre saying is if the women wanted to be more with him and he was just leading them on for sex (which i think would make him a shitty person not necessary not a misogynist in that singular instance). But that assumption is inherently flawed as it fails to realize that the women could have only wanted sex with him. The lyrics in the original article are clearly problematic, i dont think these are. Would you shame a woman for having sex with men if she liked someone else? I think you are the one filling in gaps to fit your argument. Even though you were trying to do it positively, I think equating women to objects when dealing with sex is problematic in itself.
    Ok then we disagree and i still don't see how the lyrics are misogynistic because "He's angry because he can't sleep with girls he's fantasizing about and instead with girls he doesn't want to be with." So ill leave it at that, we can agree to disagree.
     
  24. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    That's fine, you're still missing my underlying message about your opinion (or mine) about misogyny not mattering because you aren't a part of the marginalized group. Same argument as a white dude saying that he doesn't find something racist. I wasn't trying to be coy or dodge questions, merely promoting the voices of people who actually matter in this case
     
    Petit nain des Îles likes this.
  25. SoundwaveUproar Apr 15, 2016
    (Last edited: Apr 15, 2016)
    SoundwaveUproar

    Regular Prestigious

    Serious question maybe someone could help me out with

    hypothetically, Parker is a shitty person to women (and by hypothetically I am 95 to 99 percent sure this is the case). We've seen instances in past lyrics (and as show above arguably in present lyrics as well). To me the dude needs to seriously fix his shit, get some help for his aggressive tendencies and have his view on women adjusted

    But this is a scene where a large, very large in fact, population of the audience is women. I guess I'm wondering if I can get a female perspective on why a woman would listen to this band? Is it just not as obvious as a lot of people think that he does write and act in this manner? I'm not saying she had the right to be on stage or that he had the right to forcibly remove her in that manner, I'm more curious as to why a female fan would want to be up there in the first place. Because taking parker out of the equation, it's kind of messed up to me that she was clearly a big enough fan of the band to want to be on that stage when its so clear to the majority of us that he isn't someone for women to respect and that his tendencies towards women are more often than not negative

    edit: just to clarify, that last part is coming from a strictly lyrical perspective, not based on his actions or nature, just lyrics and stage persona