‘Nondescript Pop Punk Band Dropkicks a Girl Off Stage’ • Page 14

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Melody Bot, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. Malatesta Apr 13, 2016
    (Last edited: Apr 13, 2016)
    Malatesta

    i may get better but we won't ever get well Prestigious

    the fact that you're conscientious enough to not take this at face value is actually (imo) the biggest step so go you!

    the next step is variable though. everyone has lines they draw. some of these are obvious/popular (not a whole lot of people feel comfortable supporting Bill Cosby these days*) and some of them, you'll get told you're being a hardass for or are more specific for what you're comfortable with (i decided not to listen to Whirr because of their comments on GLOSS) and this falls in more of the latter category. to some people, it's not gonna be a big deal. to some, it is, and they'll stop supporting the band as a result. some will dislike this and decide to continue to be a fan because they want to criticize this act and be a positive force from within the band's community. where you're gonna fall along that spectrum depends a lot on what you look for in music and community, and while i can't speak for this whole website, i don't think a lot of users are gonna tell you that you "should" do one or the other. cause it's a personal decision, and there isn't an obvious right answer, or maybe a right answer at all.

    so like i said, the fact that you're even thinking about this - about this girl as a human being, about the fact that the band should be held accountable, about fans' safety going forward - those are all the things that i think are actually the hardest step to take because it means you've gotta be a lot more proactive and a lot more thoughtful about the media you consume/support, and a lot of people, i think, turn that part of their brain off because it's easier or because they never had to put themselves in these shoes or whatever. where you decide to go from here in this specific incident, i think, actually isn't even as important as that being the bigger picture.

    in my personal opinion, this is just one more thing on the list of shitty things i've heard about TSSF, so i've pretty much decided i'm never really gonna bother to get into them. if you're already a fan, though, that's a more difficult decision to make, so like i said, i don't think this is something people are gonna nail you to, but at the same time, i don't think anyone will have a clear cut answers besides a sympathetic "doesn't it suck that the people/groups whose art we love can sometimes actually be really terrible."

    sorry if that came off as condescending lmao, def not trying to be, just understanding where you're at with this right now as i've been there with enough bands/artists before that i start rambling like an old person telling war stories


    *disclaimer: enough people still defend him that it's gross and indicative of the kind of fame and trust we blindly place in public figures, especially at the expense of women
     
  2. transrebel59

    Regular

    Okay, so what is everybody going to do to make sure things like this don't happen? All of you are completely down for the cause until it comes time to get off the internet and actually do something aside from "discussing/raising awareness armchair activist shit". PM me what city you're in and I can help you find volunteer work that helps victims of assault. Also, if anybody is down to help discuss issues like this and how security should handle it with actual venue security, I've talked to owners of venues in the following cities and need help there: Jacksonville, Orlando, Atlanta, Augusta, Charlotte, Baltimore, DC, Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Boston, Chicago, Indianapolis, Portland, San Jose, Fresno, Anaheim, Tucson, Austin, Nashville. I'm also working on getting Warped to teach sensitivity training to all the bands at a few stops this summer.

    Let me know if you're actually down to help stop things like this from occurring.
     
  3. Timmiluvs

    I play video games fast -- @Timmiluvs Prestigious

    While the intentions of your post are admirable, to insinuate that none of us have ever done anything to help or that we're just "Internet activists" is mildly insulting.

    You're not the only one who's ever made/tried to make a difference in the world, don't act like it.
     
  4. DeviantRogue

    Take arms, it'll all blow over Prestigious

    Condescension rarely results in a positive response.
     
    JJ Pagan and Jonathan like this.
  5. Jonathan

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Verified

    JJ Pagan likes this.
  6. Anna Acosta

    Listen to Staircase Spirits. Moderator

    Contrary to your incredibly condescending assertion to the contrary, calling attention to issues and putting spotlights on bad behavior - and thus, changing the conversation so that things like this are actually framed as being a problem, instead of "so punk rock" - has real world impacts. Societal views shift because of en masse vocalizations.

    Seems as though your intentions are good, but a) assuming that you're the only one who applies these principles to your daily life is laughable and b) you're helping exactly nobody by disparaging everyone talking about this issue as a preface to your request for help. We're talking about this because it matters. Words matter.

    In other words, we're on the same team. It's okay that different people might fight the fight differently, based on their life situation and capabilities.
     
  7. sincerelymejames

    Jimmy Reardon Supporter

    I have a lot to think about. Thanks to everyone who provided insight. This is why I absolutely LOVE this site! It's so refreshing. I haven't encountered anyone being a dick, just for the sake of "being a dick." Knock on wood.
     
    JJ Pagan likes this.
  8. aranea

    Trusted Prestigious

    I have noticed your tendency to come into threads like these and repeatedly tell people what you are doing and how you are helping, and that is great and it is appreciated that you are doing so. But at the same time, you do it by also adding a call out to everyone else in the thread for apparently not doing the same thing, which is an assumption. Unless you know for sure that everyone else has not worked outside of the internet for this cause, I'm not sure where this is coming from.

    However, it is also important to consider people may have financial, personal, health, or other valid reasons or concerns for not doing anything physical. And raising awareness and discussing it online, be it via a blog, social media, a message board like this, or otherwise, is also crucial to helping the cause because it brings forth necessary conversation and can lead to more people speaking up which can then lead to actual positive change. Every little helps, and everyone does it in their own way. Various posts made in this thread proves that online conversation is important. Helping to stop things like this can come from online outlets and discussion as well as physical events, workshops and organizations. Both are important and one doesn't cancel out the other.
     
  9. supernovagirl

    Poetic and noble land mermaid

    I still have about 8 pages to go so excuse me if this has already been discussed- but is this not the same band that attacked a security guard at warped for handling a female crowdsurfer roughly? Legitimate question, am I getting mixed up? Because I haven't seen anyone say anything about it. How is it the same person???
     
  10. chris

    Trusted Supporter

    Just sayin I personally prob wouldn't tell an individual in the marginalized group in question here to police her tone.
     
  11. aranea

    Trusted Prestigious

    Yes, it is the same person - The Story So Far intervene with Warped security - News - Alternative Press

    However, the incident that's being discussed in this thread has also happened before. See here: Here’s what happens when you take a stage selfie during the Story So Far’s set - News - Alternative Press

    There's also the problem with their lyrics:
    In Defense Of Outrage: A Response — PropertyOfZack
    Misogyny in Pop Punk — Athena Talks
     
    supernovagirl likes this.
  12. aranea

    Trusted Prestigious

    I don't see hyper-aggressive foul language in the phrase "being a dick". That's pretty tame. It wasn't a plethora of cussing or personal attacks.

    Take a read of this infographic: No, We Won’t Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege
     
  13. Jason Detroit

    [Paranoia Intensifies]

    I feel like my statement was completely gender neutral, and I would have said the same thing if I saw a male behaving the same way within the forum. I hardly think a call for civility when discussing hot-button issues is a bad thing. The beauty of the internet is though it is conversational in form, we have the ability to read and think about what we say before we say it. In a thread about safety in the scene I feel like that same safety should be felt in the conversation, and if people can't express ideas or ask questions without immediately feeling attacked then it ceases to be a proper forum for discussion.
     
    Jonathan likes this.
  14. transrebel59

    Regular

    Okay, so, I apologize for any condescending remarks.

    But if you are interested in helping out in one of the cities I listed, let me know. I've talked to a venue in each city and have 100% confirmation from their GMs that they will allow you to discuss topics like this and how to handle them with their security team. I posted the same thing to a couple subreddits and have Jacksonville, Tucson and Atlanta covered.
     
    Jonathan likes this.
  15. _unproductive

    Regular

    for everything I've seen Kayla put up with in past absolutepunk, and present threads here.... you have to be pretty oblivious to think she is the one that needs to tone down her remarks. just... what??????
     
  16. Xardra

    NBMA

    My feelings on this are as they've always been, I've seen TSSF live enough times to lose count, I've never like the fact that Parker has kicked people off stage. He's been doing it forever it seems like, and it doesn't make it right. I just don't see how people are tying this to the fact that it is a woman, he's kicked men off stage before. This literally has Zero to do with the sex of the individual, or the lyrics from the album when they were 17/18 year olds.
     
  17. _unproductive

    Regular

    i dont think people are tying the 2 things together. More he is aggressive to people on stage AND he writes very misogynistic lyrics

    also the new album has lyrics that are just as terrible as the songs he wrote when he was a teen.... but now he is in his mid 20s... whats the excuse now?
     
    Timmiluvs likes this.
  18. Carrow

    Japanese Bonus Track

    It sucks that Pure Noise have failed to address this, but they have form with this sort of thing, so I'm done with them until they make a statement on it. Bands I like and want to support on that label, well, I'll just have to buy their stuff from Discogs or whatever.

    Fuck this band and fuck PNR.
     
  19. Xardra

    NBMA

    I'm not trying to make an excuse, i do not agree with the behavior of kicking any fans. I am just saying that he he's kicked fans offstage before. I don't think he looked at her and said "she's a woman I'm going to kick her off stage because i hate them" there was a story from a year ago where he kicked a male fan off stage.

    Also, can you give me an example of the recent lyrics? i am unaware of this and apologize for my ignorance.
     
  20. _unproductive

    Regular

    It was previously mentioned in this thread but this is taken from "Nerve" off the newest album

    "These days I tend to see red
    'Cause all the women swimming in my head
    Are not the same ones laying in my bed
    But I do my best to ignore it"
     
  21. Bartek T.

    D'oh! Prestigious

    Well, let's not make a discussion out of this specifically, either if it was a kick, or a push, both situations would need to be spoken of and both are plain stupid, one's just far worse... and yes, I probably watched the same video - I watched two videos from different angles. You can still adjust your move even at full speed, and either punch somebody, or push, with a simillar move. However, that's not my intention to advocate whatever happened there, it is wrong in the end, as I also stated later - I think that's something that shouldn't be held that way, even if it would not be violent, it's still disrespectful and dangerous.
     
  22. Xardra

    NBMA

    I don't really see how these are misogynistic lyrics
     
  23. OhTheWater

    Let it run Supporter

    He's angry because he can't sleep with girls he's fantasizing about and instead with girls he doesn't want to be with
     
    Petit nain des Îles likes this.
  24. rst

    Regular

    When i read it (im not a fan a TSSF the first time i read the lyrics was when they were psoted above) i thought he was simply trying to say that he never ends up with the women he wanted to be with (with cliche bland lyrics for sure). Regardless, any interpretation comes down to a person that is upset because they cant be with who they want and end up in bed with someone they dont want. That seems like most people i know at one point in their life. I havent listened to this album at all, is that lyric why people are saying he still writes misogynistic songs or are there more?
     
  25. Xardra

    NBMA

    I don't think its misogynistic to be upset that you can't be with someone you want, but instead with someone else